Max Power Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, paswt said: I have not tried to pillory anyone , as an ex H&S enforcing inspector I take the view that accidents are not attributed to just one failure but a series and perhaps it would be useful for all members of the team to have all the facts and the 'teams' answer to prevent a reoccurrence . I marshal and I'm aware that I may not be considered to be part of that team so I'll never know what happened . Sorry paswt, I wasn't meaning that you were doing the pillorieing, you are right though, most accidents have more than one cause or have a series of unfortunate circumstances coming together all at once. I don't think anyone outside of those involved will get to know everything which happened, even then they probably only know part of the story? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Not giving facts always smells like a cover up and in the long run the smell does not go away it taints everything it touches. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 hours ago, paswt said: We will not know exactly what occurred and who said what to whom until the full report is published . you think the public will ever see that ??? take your meds....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizo Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 The Great Big Manx Carpet. Usual suspect defending the indefensible. #everest 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, paswt said: Not strictly true Derek, if there was only one rider involved then I'm told there is no need for an immediate visit by the police. If two or more riders were involved then I'm told a possible manslaughter charge could follow which would necessitate a police investigation. There have been 2 fatals (where no other rider was involved) at my marshalling point , a visit was made by a police officer the following day and after confirmation that no other rider was involved drove off . Just saying I made no comment on the official driving the car. Well in 18 years of policing the even I can never recall a racing incident involving a fatality, or being of such magnitude that mortality may follow, where the police have not attended proximate to the event. the coroner would have ripped us a new one otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Helmut Fromage Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Derek Flint said: Well in 18 years of policing the even I can never recall a racing incident involving a fatality, or being of such magnitude that mortality may follow, where the police have not attended proximate to the event. the coroner would have ripped us a new one otherwise. Apart from the one in Kirk Michael where they bagged him and tucked him in behind the garden wall…… 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said: Apart from the one in Kirk Michael where they bagged him and tucked him in behind the garden wall…… Even then the police attended, via the coast road. In fact they were probably already there as I think this was before the Police withdrew from being stationed around the course? Edited February 3, 2022 by Max Power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Helmut Fromage Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Max Power said: Even then the police attended, via the coast road. Maybe they did but putting him “out of sight” of fans and riders but in full view of the occupants and neighbours so the races can continue is where on your “The TT is amazing scale” ? Out of 100 I’m a 1 at best. It is an event that when you take off the Rose Coloured Specs some staunch supporters/ participants / helpers / people who live with consequence like yourself cannot view objectively. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 10 minutes ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said: Maybe they did but putting him “out of sight” of fans and riders but in full view of the occupants and neighbours so the races can continue is where on your “The TT is amazing scale” ? Out of 100 I’m a 1 at best. It is an event that when you take off the Rose Coloured Specs some staunch supporters/ participants / helpers / people who live with consequence like yourself cannot view objectively. The family gave permission, they were asked, he was being collected. When the press got involved it was suddenly a problem. What would you have done in the circumstances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Helmut Fromage Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Max Power said: The family gave permission, they were asked, he was being collected. When the press got involved it was suddenly a problem. What would you have done in the circumstances? I would have stopped the race sent the riders back against the natural direction of the course - asked a couple of drivers in fast cars to hoof it up there - care at Ballig - because CI Derek says preserve the scene - come back a couple of years later after keeping my head down, possibly tell the CSM on the Mountain to clear off - rub my hands together and shout “NOTHING TO SEE HERE” That is what I would have done 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Max Power said: The family gave permission, they were asked, he was being collected. When the press got involved it was suddenly a problem. What would you have done in the circumstances? Suspended racing indefinitely, had the incident investigated by the police. The body placed in a bodybag and respectfully taken to the mortuary, cleaned the crash site and only then think about restarting racing. But then I don't have the same affinity for 'the races' It must have been a surreal conversation though... Marshall: *knocks on door* "excuse me, we've got a dead body would you mind if we stick it in your garden so we can get on with the racing?" Householder: "Erm sure why not?!" Edited February 3, 2022 by 0bserver 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Max Power said: I don't know all the details but hypothetically, if you were a marshal, or in a group of marshals, and you accidentally released riders resulting in the accident, I'm not sure that you would want to be named publicly? But no one is saying that the marshals involved should be publicly named. Referring by role, anonymised to avoid ambiguity (eg marshal X, marshal Y) would be the normal way to do things in an accident report. Of course those involved at the scene would know the identities - but they do already. Without knowing what happened and the mistakes (nearly always plural) that were made, how do people know that lessons have genuinely been learned and corrective actions taken - and assess those actions to see if they are sufficient? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Derek Flint said: Well in 18 years of policing the even I can never recall a racing incident involving a fatality, or being of such magnitude that mortality may follow, where the police have not attended proximate to the event. the coroner would have ripped us a new one otherwise. Have PM'd you with details of the two fatal incidents when the police did not attend until the following day. Edited February 3, 2022 by paswt 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milestone 11 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Max Power said: Sorry paswt, I wasn't meaning that you were doing the pillorieing, you are right though, most accidents have more than one cause or have a series of unfortunate circumstances coming together all at once. I don't think anyone outside of those involved will get to know everything which happened, even then they probably only know part of the story? You, nevertheless, have drawn a conclusion as to who hit whom Edited February 3, 2022 by milestone 11 Punctuation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omobono Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Boris Johnson said: I would guess that Derek is correct. For example, Say a TT rider is shagging your wife and you find out. You decide to shoot him with a sniper rifle while he is riding the TT as cover for your murder. That is the kind of shit I think the Police have to take into account? So the cause of death identified as the result of the inquest would be death by shooting , there would be witnesses , Boris you have too many conspiracy theories , this is a serious issue , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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