Airport.

[Non-Believer]

2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

You're missing the point. This is not just about cost, this is about keeping up with the technology that already exists, is in use and is growing. Using RATC provides 24/7 and is used as and when required. IOM airport won't have to worry about tea breaks, peaks in traffic or having to keep ATC back for another hour at the end of the day to direct inbound and outbound traffic. They don't need to worry about training, that's the RATC's problem not ours. And bfore you might want to throw Issues like approach/departures up they can be dealt with.

I'll leave this with you: https://www.hial.co.uk/atms/air-traffic-management-strategy
We should be hanging on to the coat tails of this project.

And this: https://avinor.no/en/avinor-air-navigations-services/services/remote-towers

We're going to get left behind.

IoMG'd probably lob in the old chestnut about us being an independent nation state and it being essential to have our own operation on those grounds.

[Andy Onchan]

6 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

IoMG'd probably lob in the old chestnut about us being an independent nation state and it being essential to have our own operation on those grounds.

Aye. That did go through my head as I was typing the above out. The endless mantra of "we're different" being rolled out is the only excuse needed to maintain the bloated public service that it has become. Never a thought for the GMT and passengers.  

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, Derek Flint said:

Doesn’t Doncaster get operated remotely by Liverpool?

I recall seeing something about that quite a while ago but I don't think it's gone ahead yet. The common denominator in all of this is Peel Holdings, although I have something at the back of my mind that PH were wanting rid of Doncaster. But I might have that wrong.

[ellanvannin2010]

2 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Doesn’t Doncaster get operated remotely by Liverpool?

 

54 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

I recall seeing something about that quite a while ago but I don't think it's gone ahead yet. The common denominator in all of this is Peel Holdings, although I have something at the back of my mind that PH were wanting rid of Doncaster. But I might have that wrong.

Here you go.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/john-lennon-airport-looks-provide-7216977

 

[WTF]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

IoMG'd probably lob in the old chestnut about us being an independent nation state and it being essential to have our own operation on those grounds.

yes, that has worked so well for our electricity needs.

[Andy Onchan]

36 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

 

Here you go.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/john-lennon-airport-looks-provide-7216977

 

Thanks, that might have been the article where I read it originally. Although it's hard to believe that it was almost 8 years ago!

 

 

[gerremonside]

7 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

ou're missing the point. This is not just about cost, this is about keeping up with the technology that already exists, is in use and is growing. Using RATC provides 24/7 and is used as and when required. IOM airport won't have to worry about tea breaks, peaks in traffic or having to keep ATC back for another hour at the end of the day to direct inbound and outbound traffic. They don't need to worry about training, that's the RATC's problem not ours. And bfore you might want to throw Issues like approach/departures up they can be dealt with.

I'll leave this with you: https://www.hial.co.uk/atms/air-traffic-management-strategy
We should be hanging on to the coat tails of this project.

And this: https://avinor.no/en/avinor-air-navigations-services/services/remote-towers

Think this news is a little later...

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands-islands/3889395/prospect-union-claim-big-win-as-hial-shelves-remote-towers-project/

[Andy Onchan]

2 minutes ago, gerremonside said:

Think this news is a little later...

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands-islands/3889395/prospect-union-claim-big-win-as-hial-shelves-remote-towers-project/

It will happen.

ETA: Angus MacNeil is a danger to his own constituents.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Andy Onchan

[snowman]

17 hours ago, NoTailT said:

Seems London City might get delayed.

Spoke to a Loganair ATR pilot pal of mine today. City flight training cancelled for 3rd time today. They're just sat twiddling their thumbs. Need currency training flights under their wings before it can be flown.

Loganair still selling tickets for Tuesday onwards so they're on the hook for alot of Uk261 compo and rebooking if they don't commence operations. Busy Easter weekend in store ...

[snowman]

9 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

It will happen.

There's a shortage of ATCO's. In the region of 19%. It has to happen or else the airport will likely end up on continued reduce hours.

 

Unlike the hospital which will continue on unsafe staffing ratios 

[gerremonside]

6 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Doesn’t Doncaster get operated remotely by Liverpool?

Yes, but not the tower. Only the approach control function

 

4 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

You're missing the point. This is not just about cost, this is about keeping up with the technology that already exists, is in use and is growing. Using RATC provides 24/7 and is used as and when required. IOM airport won't have to worry about tea breaks, peaks in traffic or having to keep ATC back for another hour at the end of the day to direct inbound and outbound traffic. They don't need to worry about training, that's the RATC's problem not ours.

And that's another common misunderstanding. Peaks and troughs. Although one can predict scheduled traffic, you can't always predict ad-hoc traffic, be they actual airport movements, or as is often the case with traffic worked by Ronaldsway ATC, overflying and adjacent flying traffic.  So although to an extent breaks can be planned around what is known, what often happens is unkown "pop-up" traffic delays mandatory breaks. Delays to schedules, much like the minister was trying to explain in his radio interview the other night have the same effect. There comes a time therefore when with a limited resource of validated controllers, a position needs to be closed.  
For an outside agency (presumably on the adjacent isle) to take on the remote operation for either Tower or approach or both would need them to train 14 controllers either form scratch or from having the rating qualifications. Minimum lead in time would be 2-3 years, even if you could find those spare controllers on a shelf somewhere.  And it would need 2 or 3 with the local knowledge required to teach them (that would be a regulatory requirement - assuming they approved having no contingency to open an on-site facility in case of failure/malfunction of the tower infrastructure anyway) 
Oh and yes it would be the RATCs problem. They would no doubt bill IOM Gov PLC accordingly, and having us by the short & curlies add an additional 50% for the privilege... 

Edited April 14, 2022 by gerremonside

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, gerremonside said:

Yes, but not the tower. Only the approach control function

 

And that's another common misunderstanding. Peaks and troughs. Although one can predict scheduled traffic, you can't always predict ad-hoc traffic, be they actual airport movements, or as is often the case with traffic worked by Ronaldsway ATC, overflying and adjacent flying traffic.  So although to an extent breaks can be planned around what is known, what often happens is unkown "pop-up" traffic delays mandatory breaks. Delays to schedules, much like the minister was trying to explain in his radio interview the other night have the same effect. There comes a time therefore when with a limited resource of validated controllers, a position needs to be closed.  
For an outside agency (presumably on the adjacent isle) to take on the remote operation for either Tower or approach or both would need them to train 14 controllers either form scratch or from having the rating qualifications. Minimum lead in time would be 2-3 years, even if you could find those spare controllers on a shelf somewhere.  And it would need 2 or 3 with the local knowledge required to teach them (that would be a regulatory requirement - assuming they approved having no contingency to open an on-site facility in case of failure/malfunction of the tower infrastructure anyway) 
Oh and yes it would be the RATCs problem. They would no doubt bill IOM Gov PLC accordingly, and having us by the short & curlies add an additional 50% for the privilege... 

Either way, we're shagged! That much was obvious to me when you outlined the history behind the folly called transport strategy.

Scarce resources will always cost more, whether that's on-island or off-island. But I think I know which way I would vote.

[NoTailT]

1 hour ago, snowman said:

Loganair still selling tickets for Tuesday onwards so they're on the hook for alot of Uk261 compo and rebooking if they don't commence operations. Busy Easter weekend in store ...

I don't know how much training they need. May be they can sort it by then.

Just had an email today that my easyjet flight to Liverpool on 10th May has been cancelled and rescheduled to... 9th May. So kind, easyjet.

[snowman]

3 hours ago, NoTailT said:

I don't know how much training they need. May be they can sort it by then.

Just had an email today that my easyjet flight to Liverpool on 10th May has been cancelled and rescheduled to... 9th May. So kind, easyjet.

My easyJet flight on the 7th has been rearranged for the 6th. So it's Loganair instead now. No email from easyJet. I just spotted the distruption in the app

[Zulu]

54 minutes ago, snowman said:

My easyJet flight on the 7th has been rearranged for the 6th. So it's Loganair instead now. No email from easyJet. I just spotted the distruption in the app

My brother has just had his flight from Manchester to the Island on the 3rd May cancelled.