Airport.

[Blade Runner]

2 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

We try to consider all eventualities and options, although it would be wrong of me to go into details here. Nobody in Tynwald is remotely happy about the current state of air travel. One thing is for sure - whatever we decide will be wrong for a lot of people.

If we still had plenty of money we'd possibly contract an operator to service all our key routes. But that would take significant funding, and since our cash cupboard is bare it would have to be passed on to either users or the general taxpayer. I don't know how many people fly (I've not flown commercially for almost a year and prior to that maybe one short return trip a year) so non-users would be aggrieved at subsidising gallivanters.

Or we could set up Manx Airlines (The Reboot) and we'd be slaughtered for thinking we could run an airline, especially as it could easily make a loss. I don't know how easy it would be to get slots into key destinations like LGW. I suspect closed skies - and I agree with MMP this has many potential benefits - would also be the end of cheap flights, which would create another furore from people who never went to Gatwick anyway (and it's the late Gatwick return seems the biggest problem).

We ARE trying to fix this, but not all commercial aviation problems are fixable locally.

IMHO You should be catering, flying wise for business customers.

Yes, that may cost more but that is the demographic that makes the island function and should have very, VERY reliable flights.

If a business needs a £250 return to London to make its books balance it is not a worthwhile business for the islands bigger picture

It may not be PC to say this but the Plebs can get the boat.

[Blade Runner]

2 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

We try to consider all eventualities and options, although it would be wrong of me to go into details here. Nobody in Tynwald is remotely happy about the current state of air travel. One thing is for sure - whatever we decide will be wrong for a lot of people.

If we still had plenty of money we'd possibly contract an operator to service all our key routes. But that would take significant funding, and since our cash cupboard is bare it would have to be passed on to either users or the general taxpayer. I don't know how many people fly (I've not flown commercially for almost a year and prior to that maybe one short return trip a year) so non-users would be aggrieved at subsidising gallivanters.

Or we could set up Manx Airlines (The Reboot) and we'd be slaughtered for thinking we could run an airline, especially as it could easily make a loss. I don't know how easy it would be to get slots into key destinations like LGW. I suspect closed skies - and I agree with MMP this has many potential benefits - would also be the end of cheap flights, which would create another furore from people who never went to Gatwick anyway (and it's the late Gatwick return seems the biggest problem).

We ARE trying to fix this, but not all commercial aviation problems are fixable locally.

duplicate

Edited September 25, 2023 by Blade Runner

[madmanxpilot]

20 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Yes, though it's always dangerous to judge things on a single day of course.  Is it also a time-of-day thing as well, with flights scheduled for early evening being hardest hit?

The link for my table was actually to the pdf for June not July, but the analysis was from the spreadsheet for July.  But looking at the June figures, it's quite clear that the July ones are corrupted in some way to do with BA and all sorts of flights have been allocated to it from other airlines, including unrelated.  Though I suspect to easyJet figures are correct.

I wasn’t making any comment other than for today. EZY are blaming ATC, yet they appear to be the only one affected, so I was questioning the accuracy of the reason they have cited. The same happened the other evening too - ATC blamed yet they were the only one’s cancelling.

The figures you have quoted do show that you are 90% more likely to have your EZY flight to the IOM cancelled than you are your Aurigny flight to GCI it seems.

Both have and evening departure, so they offer a similar timetable.

The difference is that Aurigny only have GCI to serve.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by madmanxpilot
Typo

[John Wright]

19 minutes ago, Blade Runner said:

IMHO You should be catering, flying wise for business customers.

Yes, that may cost more but that is the demographic that makes the island function and should have very, VERY reliable flights.

If a business needs a £250 return to London to make its books balance it is not a worthwhile business for the islands bigger picture

It may not be PC to say this but the Plebs can get the boat.

There aren’t enough business travellers. You’ve just got to look at BA or franchisees or LoganAir to City. Marginal, has been cancelled several times, reinstated and had to be subsidised. LoganAir to Heathrow is being subsidised.

Manx return, full fare, to London, in its last few weeks of operation, was £300+. But there were apex, farecracker, and other pex fares. The planes were never business only. In inflation adjusted terms we are looking at £750.

It’s not just “not PC” but it ignores the fact that 80%+ of bums on seats will be tourists or Manxies on holiday. Any airline now depends on being full.

[Nellie]

1 hour ago, Blade Runner said:

IMHO You should be catering, flying wise for business customers.

Yes, that may cost more but that is the demographic that makes the island function and should have very, VERY reliable flights.

If a business needs a £250 return to London to make its books balance it is not a worthwhile business for the islands bigger picture

It may not be PC to say this but the Plebs can get the boat.

Business vs non-business customers, and plucking a random fare of £250 out of thin air, is an over simplification of how the aviation industry now works.  

Everyone is a potential passenger, and I'd imagine the smartest people who work for airlines these days are the people who write the algorithms that attract those passengers, and to optimise the total revenue generated by each individual flight (the yield).

This happens by automatically setting and adjusting the fare levels as seats are sold/not sold and also considers factors such as, competitor pricing/activity, historical revenues (week, month, year), external events (TT week). Throw in ancillary revenues, such as seat selection, cabin bags, hold luggage, where demand will vary by the nature of the route and it's pretty complex stuff. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Nellie

[Non-Believer]

1 hour ago, Nellie said:

Business vs non-business customers, and plucking a random fare of £250 out of thin air, is an over simplification of how the aviation industry now works.  

Everyone is a potential passenger, and I'd imagine the smartest people who work for airlines these days are the people who write the algorithms that attract those passengers, and to optimise the total revenue generated by each individual flight (the yield).

This happens by automatically setting and adjusting the fare levels as seats are sold/not sold and also considers factors such as, competitor pricing/activity, historical revenues (week, month, year), external events (TT week). Throw in ancillary revenues, such as seat selection, cabin bags, hold luggage, where demand will vary by the nature of the route and it's pretty complex stuff. 

If my memory serves me, a couple of weeks ago there was an announcement that there's to be a Commons committee inquiry into what is called the "Drip Charging" by airlines, the practice of endless add-ons for seats, hold baggage,  breathing oxygen etc.

[Mercenary]

33 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

If my memory serves me, a couple of weeks ago there was an announcement that there's to be a Commons committee inquiry into what is called the "Drip Charging" by airlines, the practice of endless add-ons for seats, hold baggage,  breathing oxygen etc.

On the flip side price discrimination means that people are paying for what they want and prices are lower

Edited September 25, 2023 by Mercenary

[rodders]

 

[Nellie]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

If my memory serves me, a couple of weeks ago there was an announcement that there's to be a Commons committee inquiry into what is called the "Drip Charging" by airlines, the practice of endless add-ons for seats, hold baggage,  breathing oxygen etc.

I don't think that most people have a problem with 'a la carte' pricing and paying only for hold/cabin bags, specific seat etc when you actually want it.

What is wrong, and needs to be stopped,  is Ryanair, and perhaps others, charging ludicrous fees for printing boarding passes etc. when people have made a genuine error.

Dynamic pricing and unbundling is a global thing, for air, rail, coach travel and hotels etc. A few British MP's deciding that they don't like it won't change anything.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Nellie

[Banker]

3 hours ago, Blade Runner said:

IMHO You should be catering, flying wise for business customers.

Yes, that may cost more but that is the demographic that makes the island function and should have very, VERY reliable flights.

If a business needs a £250 return to London to make its books balance it is not a worthwhile business for the islands bigger picture

It may not be PC to say this but the Plebs can get the boat.

You’ve obviously got no business sense or any sense whatsoever!

[Andy Onchan]

12 hours ago, Mercenary said:

On the flip side price discrimination means that people are paying for what they want and prices are lower

But are they lower, if you have to pay for a seat, hold baggage, cabin baggage?

[littlebushy]

16 hours ago, newaccount said:

Tuesday - 800 movements  

Wednesday – 829 movements 

Thursday – 840 movements 

Friday – 865 movements 

Saturday – 800 movements  

Sunday – 830 movements

Thought I was reading Rob Callister's blog for a minute

[Mercenary]

9 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

But are they lower, if you have to pay for a seat, hold baggage, cabin baggage?

Does the 20 stone bloke get ripped off on the a la carte menu when they are used to eating at 'all you can eats'?

[newaccount]

Loganair London City cancelled this evening (to and from IOM)

[John Wright]

10 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

But are they lower, if you have to pay for a seat, hold baggage, cabin baggage?

Went to London last week, via Gatwick. £115 return out Tuesday am back Friday pm. Included seat, 10kg cabin bag and 15kg hold bag. Plus they carried my chair for free.

OK, I’m an EZY plus member, £185 a year, get free seat selection and free large cabin bags. They’d have been another £50. Only have to do 4 round trips every year to be in pocket.

I’m off to Barcelona on Thursday. Those 4 flights I’ve saved £95.

I was booked on the 12.55 to Barcelona, but that’s cancelled due to NATS ATC staffing issues. But I’ve got onto the 16.30.