IOM Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, newaccount said: Like euromanx and Flybe. They're not even in the same league. Anyway you asked for a suggestion. I gave you one. If you would prefer them to spend money on all other sorts of bullshit which this thread has many examples of then feel free to pick holes in anything I write. In the meantime the airport, passenger numbers and the island are going down the toilet I agree the airport passenger numbers are lower than they need to be but I fear your plan to use Ryanair and Stansted is fatally flawed . More larger aircraft and adding in more 156/180 seat planes will inevitably lead to a loss of connectivity. Believe it or not an island needs to have a regular and frequent service if you are wanting to drive passenger numbers and unless you want to throw £millions to have Ryanair fly a load of empty planes you just won’t get that . You only have to look at whats happened to Belfast , Bristol ,Manchester with EasyJet to see it does not really work . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) On 1/23/2024 at 9:40 PM, Roger Mexico said: I can't find the actual FoI response - it may have been held back from being published if it's an IOMN request and they want an exclusive. Alternatively the DoI may be hiding it. However looking at the requirements for the RYA exam you can see why it would be fairly onerous on any fire crew wanting to take it, especially the requirement for days at sea for those who weren't already active amateur seagoers. But why do they need all this anyway? The only time they will be using the boat 'in anger' will be in the immediate vicinity of the Bay. Not only is the vast majority of what RYA certification covers irrelevant, there will be all sorts of things that the situations they would be dealing with could require that aren't included. What seems to be happening is that current civil service obsession - the desire to outsource. Whether this saves money or not is not the issue, it seems. What they really want to get rid of is responsibility. Whether this is the right solution in this case - response will be much slower if relying on the RNLI than a launch from the Airport, but the likelihood of an incident may be very low. I can not see the problem of letting the RNLI take care of anything in the water. More than adequately trained in the job they have to do, as for quick response they could be on site in less than 10-15 minute. Lot faster than airport staff that have to go through unfamiliar situations and equipment. Oh and throw them £500,000 a year and still save money Edited January 24 by Dirty Buggane Lax 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 All the lo-cost airlines work on load factors of I believe 85% and above to be profitable. Common sense dictates that here we do not have the passenger numbers to support that business model. Furthermore again the Lo-Cost airlines do not pay much to airports, but at airports where they are able to attract thousands more passengers those costs are nominally offset by terminal shopping, again part of the business model which won't work here. About the time Flybe lost their way, we did too, the point at which we recruited people who desperately wanted us to be "Heathrow on Sea" and threw around numbers so fanciful that anyone could see they were pie in the sky, apart of course from the numbnuts in Tynwald and the CM at the time ! We then spent a massive amount of money on the wrong things and neglected the stuff which we really needed, like up to the minute poor weather landing aids and decent welcoming infrastructure. Together with supporting smaller operators. I don't think there is an easy solution at this time as smaller airports are struggling and the operators that used to service them likewise. 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, Dirty Buggane said: I can not see the problem of letting the RNLI take care of anything in the water. More than adequately trained in the job they have to do, as for quick response they could be on site in less than 10-15 minute. Lot faster than airport staff that have to go through unfamiliar situations and equipment. They'd probably have to wait for them to finish their tea break (or game of pool) anyway. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 And then nobody would know where they put the ignition key, and twenty minutes to get into the dry suit. Be quicker to get the Manxman to call on her way past as she will most likely be cruising around in bad weather as she is unable to stay in port but cannot sail to any destination ? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha-acid Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, finlo said: They'd probably have to wait for them to finish their tea break (or game of pool) anyway. RNLI are volunteers so could not be possibly playing pool together as they are in paid jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Dirty Buggane said: I can not see the problem of letting the RNLI take care of anything in the water. More than adequately trained in the job they have to do, as for quick response they could be on site in less than 10-15 minute. Lot faster than airport staff that have to go through unfamiliar situations and equipment. Oh and throw them £500,000 a year and still save money Presumably the RNLI will be already be trained-up and familiar in dealing with a downed, at-sea passenger plane. 10-15 minutes to location is possibly an under-estimation. As @alpha-acid has just pointed-out, the RNLI lads are all on-call volunteers working in normal day-jobs. Obviously dependent on conditions and location but definitely the RNLI would likely be first on-scene under any circumstances. Are commercial passenger planes fitted with floation devices? They carry life-rafts as standard, I presume... Google is my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarley Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Is there any reason why the RNLI couldn't use the airport's boat and associated equipment? Surely that would save some time getting to the scene. They would have to have regular practice sessions to ensure they're familiar with the set up, but at least they already have all the vital basic training the airport crew lack. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 12 hours ago, quilp said: Presumably the RNLI will be already be trained-up and familiar in dealing with a downed, at-sea passenger plane. 10-15 minutes to location is possibly an under-estimation. As @alpha-acid has just pointed-out, the RNLI lads are all on-call volunteers working in normal day-jobs. Obviously dependent on conditions and location but definitely the RNLI would likely be first on-scene under any circumstances. Are commercial passenger planes fitted with floation devices? They carry life-rafts as standard, I presume... Google is my friend. In the (hopefully) unlikely event of an aircraft ditching in the water on approach to any runway then a RNLI or any DOI boat isn't going to have the capacity to take all the passengers on board in any weather, let alone a calm sea. So a life-raft would be a must I would have thought. MMP - do ATR's have liferafts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 12 hours ago, quilp said: Presumably the RNLI will be already be trained-up and familiar in dealing with a downed, at-sea passenger plane. 10-15 minutes to location is possibly an under-estimation. As @alpha-acid has just pointed-out, the RNLI lads are all on-call volunteers working in normal day-jobs. Obviously dependent on conditions and location but definitely the RNLI would likely be first on-scene under any circumstances. Are commercial passenger planes fitted with floation devices? They carry life-rafts as standard, I presume... Google is my friend. 10-15 minutes in the Irish Sea at its temperature...and at least 50% of people won't be getting rescued alive. Rescue needs to be done in minutes. ETA: ...and that's just for a calm sea. . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 You sure your not getting mixed up with the Artic sea, or the fact that having your head underwater for 10-15 minutes can be detrimental to your health. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Runner Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 9 minutes ago, Dirty Buggane said: You sure your not getting mixed up with the Artic sea, or the fact that having your head underwater for 10-15 minutes can be detrimental to your health. Cold water shock is a killer, it does not have to be freezing. It why kids die in rivers in the summer in a lot of cases 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 4 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: In the (hopefully) unlikely event of an aircraft ditching in the water on approach to any runway then a RNLI or any DOI boat isn't going to have the capacity to take all the passengers on board in any weather, let alone a calm sea. So a life-raft would be a must I would have thought. MMP - do ATR's have liferafts? Not normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) I don’t have any specific knowledge of why staff aren’t trained up on the boat, but my guess would be it’s to with there not being enough of them employed to allow for release from work to allow for attendance at whatever training needs to be given. There need to be a specific number of firefighters on duty to reach the required category of cover to allow for aircraft to operate. The bigger the aircraft, the higher the category and the more staff are needed.. If that’s the case, then someone should have perhaps considered that before spending (wasting) a lot of money. Edited January 25 by madmanxpilot 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 13 hours ago, quilp said: Presumably the RNLI will be already be trained-up and familiar in dealing with a downed, at-sea passenger plane. 10-15 minutes to location is possibly an under-estimation. As @alpha-acid has just pointed-out, the RNLI lads are all on-call volunteers working in normal day-jobs. Obviously dependent on conditions and location but definitely the RNLI would likely be first on-scene under any circumstances. Are commercial passenger planes fitted with floation devices? They carry life-rafts as standard, I presume... Google is my friend. 15 mins is completely unachievable for any of the RNLI boats. Maybe 15 min from the call, for them to get to the boathouse in either Douglas or Port St Mary. But then the travel time from those locations in a boat to the airport. Much earlier in the thread I stated it would more realistically be about 45 mins at least. This is coming from someone who owns a boat, spends a lot of time in/on the sea and knows a few RNLI members. I looked at joining Douglas myself, but unfortunately realistically I live too far away to ever get to the boat before everyone else, and would just end up sitting in the boathouse with a cup of tea and maybe wash the boat down if I was lucky. 1 hour ago, Zarley said: Is there any reason why the RNLI couldn't use the airport's boat and associated equipment? Surely that would save some time getting to the scene. They would have to have regular practice sessions to ensure they're familiar with the set up, but at least they already have all the vital basic training the airport crew lack. This is actually not a bad idea. You could drive to Derbyhaven quicker in a car than you could boat from most places in the South. Although the boat itself is 6m(ish) RIB, which is most similar to Pt Erin's Atlantic class boat, so those guys would have minimal re-training time. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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