Airport.

[NoTailT]

9 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I’m not wishing for anything between Flybe Mk2 or LoganAir or EZY. My expectations are low..

I’m just looking on with wonderment at the rose tinted clamour for Flybe, an airline also saddled with debt, owners who wouldn’t inject more cash and punctuality issues.

Im also watching the blame Jez suggestions. just to be clear, I’ve no time for him. But Mk2 aren’t serving JSY & GSY either.

Im trying to understand the anti LoganAir attitude.

We've a small market. That’s what dictates.

 

I think the problem is that Flybe mk2 is an unknown quantity right now. Will reliability issues of old (personally never experienced them) be solved?

But for people like Jez to outright fuck them off and do everything he could to stop them serving our Island, is a scandal in itself.

The Government here are so invested in Loganairs future and its survival, its shambolic and shameful.

[flyingpeelman]

6 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

I think the problem is that Flybe mk2 is an unknown quantity right now. Will reliability issues of old (personally never experienced them) be solved?

But for people like Jez to outright fuck them off and do everything he could to stop them serving our Island, is a scandal in itself.

The Government here are so invested in Loganairs future and its survival, its shambolic and shameful.

This!

Couldn’t have said it better myself. 
 

[Ringy Rose]

If Flybe Reincarnated lasts two years I'll eat my hat. I would be using a credit card for any bookings, put it that way.

I don't get the hate for Loganair. 2+2 seats, inclusive hold luggage, and a free coffee and biscuit. My experience is that they're not any less reliable than EasyJet, and Flightradar shows they've been quick enough to fly a spare aircraft from Teesside when the island-based ATR72 goes tech, which all aircraft do sometimes. And at least with the ATR72 only ever going as far as Birmingham things can recover a bit quicker; I was delayed an hour at Liverpool a few weeks ago because the EasyJet I was booked on got delayed in Geneva.

And if you're taking hold luggage there's usually bugger all between Loganair and EasyJet price-wise. I'll go based on timings, sometimes it's EasyJet and sometimes it's Loganair. They're both much of a muchness.

Loganair binning the Edinburgh flights in Jan/Feb with no warning was a poor show though.

I certainly don't get why anyone would prefer the old Flybe, who gave you all the pain of a low fares airline without actually giving you the low fares.

As for Jez "blocking" other airlines, my outsider view is that that is likely to be complete bollocks. If they want to fly commercially there's nothing stopping them. But Eastern have shown no interest in the island for donkey's years and I wouldn't be trusting the new Flybe with government grants until they can demonstrate performance. Emerald are back this week now Aer Lingus sorted out the regional routes, and there's no evidence Emerald or Aer Lingus want to do more.

Maybe Flybe II will be amazing. But anyone who thinks we should bin off Loganair, who are a secure (the Scottish Government will see to that) and established airline, for Flybe II are verifiably insane. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Ringy Rose

[snowman]

What do you mean Emerald are back.

They're a new kid on the block

[Ringy Rose]

1 minute ago, snowman said:

What do you mean Emerald are back.

They're a new kid on the block

Yep, they're the new operator for Aer Lingus Regional and have the security of that contract. I should have said Aer Lingus are back, using Emerald.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Ringy Rose

[NoTailT]

3 hours ago, Ringy Rose said:

If Flybe Reincarnated lasts two years I'll eat my hat. I would be using a credit card for any bookings, put it that way.

I don't get the hate for Loganair. 2+2 seats, inclusive hold luggage, and a free coffee and biscuit. My experience is that they're not any less reliable than EasyJet, and Flightradar shows they've been quick enough to fly a spare aircraft from Teesside when the island-based ATR72 goes tech, which all aircraft do sometimes. And at least with the ATR72 only ever going as far as Birmingham things can recover a bit quicker; I was delayed an hour at Liverpool a few weeks ago because the EasyJet I was booked on got delayed in Geneva.

And if you're taking hold luggage there's usually bugger all between Loganair and EasyJet price-wise. I'll go based on timings, sometimes it's EasyJet and sometimes it's Loganair. They're both much of a muchness.

Loganair binning the Edinburgh flights in Jan/Feb with no warning was a poor show though.

I certainly don't get why anyone would prefer the old Flybe, who gave you all the pain of a low fares airline without actually giving you the low fares.

As for Jez "blocking" other airlines, my outsider view is that that is likely to be complete bollocks. If they want to fly commercially there's nothing stopping them. But Eastern have shown no interest in the island for donkey's years and I wouldn't be trusting the new Flybe with government grants until they can demonstrate performance. Emerald are back this week now Aer Lingus sorted out the regional routes, and there's no evidence Emerald or Aer Lingus want to do more.

Maybe Flybe II will be amazing. But anyone who thinks we should bin off Loganair, who are a secure (the Scottish Government will see to that) and established airline, for Flybe II are verifiably insane. 

I've bolded a major concern of mine that I've had ever since the Loganair handouts started.

I think IOM Government is so balls deep heavily invested in Loganair that it too may find itself needing to cough up to fend for Loganairs survival, if that were to come to pass.

[Happier diner]

5 hours ago, NoTailT said:

I've bolded a major concern of mine that I've had ever since the Loganair handouts started.

I think IOM Government is so balls deep heavily invested in Loganair that it too may find itself needing to cough up to fend for Loganairs survival, if that were to come to pass.

Balls deep 🤣

[Ringy Rose]

5 hours ago, NoTailT said:

I've bolded a major concern of mine that I've had ever since the Loganair handouts started.

I think IOM Government is so balls deep heavily invested in Loganair that it too may find itself needing to cough up to fend for Loganairs survival, if that were to come to pass.

"Loganair handouts". Goodness me. They were paid to provide a service that simply wasn't sustainable commercially during Covid, after they'd filled the vacuum left by old Flybe.

The price was pretty reasonable really; look what Guernsey has had to cough up for Aurigny.

I'd honestly be surprised if Loganair went bust, but if they do then other airlines will quickly fill the gap. Our relationship with Loganair is no different to our relationship with the old Flybe. We were heavily dependant on Flybe- balls deep, if you will- yet when they went bust they were replaced within weeks.

[asitis]

I find it difficult to understand how Government support Logan with public money, but maintain open skies on their routes, so eroding their passenger base. Seems a bit daft to me ! or maybe just a continuation of their respect for other peoples money.

[Gladys]

7 minutes ago, asitis said:

I find it difficult to understand how Government support Logan with public money, but maintain open skies on their routes, so eroding their passenger base. Seems a bit daft to me ! or maybe just a continuation of their respect for other peoples money.

Yes, I can't understand how the two work together.   

[NoTailT]

15 minutes ago, asitis said:

I find it difficult to understand how Government support Logan with public money, but maintain open skies on their routes, so eroding their passenger base. Seems a bit daft to me ! or maybe just a continuation of their respect for other peoples money.

I don't get how they can throw £4mln at underwriting Loganair London flights when there's commercially viable situations and the missed opportunity to have Flybe mk2 on Heathrow.

Some people here just aren't getting this. We will continue to throw money at Loganair for whatever excuse they come up with and when their underwritten flying across the UK comes under pressure they'll be coming cap in hand to the Scottish and Manx Governments looking for a bailout.

Need I remind everyone of the strop when Stobart Air appealed the PTS tender (and won) when Loganair management threatened to pull all routes unless they were awarded PTS. They only care about underwritten risk-free flying. Once the £4mln London pot is used up, they'll pull the routes and blame the traffic. But it was always going to be ludicrous sending an ATR in to Heathtow and City.

IOM-Manchester on Monday. 147 people easyjet at 1pm. 14 people Loganair an hour or so later.

People are happily voting with their feet and one is heavily subsidised, one isn't. Ironically the commercially 'at risk' operator is the one doing well, because they are forced to be savvier with their fares and yield management given it is THEIR risk. We've been here before in other sectors with underwriting. It's bollocks.

Edited March 23, 2022 by NoTailT

[WTF]

32 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Yes, I can't understand how the two work together.   

it's the manx way, it defies comprehension.

[ellanvannin2010]

40 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

I don't get how they can throw £4mln at underwriting Loganair London flights when there's commercially viable situations and the missed opportunity to have Flybe mk2 on Heathrow.

Some people here just aren't getting this. We will continue to throw money at Loganair for whatever excuse they come up with and when their underwritten flying across the UK comes under pressure they'll be coming cap in hand to the Scottish and Manx Governments looking for a bailout.

Need I remind everyone of the strop when Stobart Air appealed the PTS tender (and won) when Loganair management threatened to pull all routes unless they were awarded PTS. They only care about underwritten risk-free flying. Once the £4mln London pot is used up, they'll pull the routes and blame the traffic. But it was always going to be ludicrous sending an ATR in to Heathtow and City.

IOM-Manchester on Monday. 147 people easyjet at 1pm. 14 people Loganair an hour or so later.

People are happily voting with their feet and one is heavily subsidised, one isn't. Ironically the commercially 'at risk' operator is the one doing well, because they are forced to be savvier with their fares and yield management given it is THEIR risk. We've been here before in other sectors with underwriting. It's bollocks.

You could say we have spent a lot more on infrastructure improvements to accommodate the large planes of one operator.

And if Stobart had got the PTS would it have saved them?.

You could also argue that the problem is the non Island based operator taking just enough traffic away to make a proper useful schedule for the Island uneconomic, perhaps if they were removed the need for any underwriting would disappear?.

[Banker]

1 hour ago, NoTailT said:

IOM-Manchester on Monday. 147 people easyjet at 1pm. 14 people Loganair an hour or so later

Probably because Logan air prices are consistently much higher even when there’s loads of space on plane, easyJet gets more expensive as more seats get sold Logan air seems to get more expensive the more seats are available!!

[NoTailT]

9 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

You could say we have spent a lot more on infrastructure improvements to accommodate the large planes of one operator.

And if Stobart had got the PTS would it have saved them?.

You could also argue that the problem is the non Island based operator taking just enough traffic away to make a proper useful schedule for the Island uneconomic, perhaps if they were removed the need for any underwriting would disappear?.

It's not about Stobart winning PTS, that was a basket case. But it was Loganairs attitude towards the process and the weak folk in DOI.

easyjet have been long established on e..g Gatwick Why should they be cut off and why should we taxpayers be funding competition against a stable commercial operation?