ellanvannin2010 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 21 minutes ago, NoTailT said: Let's be honest, if IOM Gov are involved it's inevitable we will lose out. Its normally the way. Listen, I'm sceptical. I will use City for weekend in the smoke and I will use Heathrow to connect to Europe or further afield on a single ticket with BA, I know that. But I, you and others can see the data. We know what these routes can do pre-COVID. It looks and feels a lot like what Loganair did in Newquay, Carlisle and Teeside i.e present figures they feel are achievable, get the underwrite and naturally hit nowhere near the figures and pull the plug when the money is gone. It's rinse and repeat. But let's see. No doubt if it doesn't succeed, Greenhow and DOI will fudge it and never accept Governments ineptness. Doing some dummy bookings the through fares to Europe seemed pretty good, The extra premium to book BA rather than Loganair just to London seemed pretty high at about £40 each way. Still I have booked a few trips for the summer, get more time there and save the expense of extra nights in hotels lets see how it goes although an ATR is not my favourite to LCY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, IOM said: So what do you propose as the alternative? Leave it in the hands of EasyJet get flights at random times whenever they can fit the Isle of Man into their schedule? Genuinely curious what you and all those who constantly sing the virtues of EasyJet as the answer would do . And for the record once again because I know there are plenty who would say I am an EasyJet basher I have consistently said there is a role for them . This isn't about anti-easyJet or anti-Loganair. Flybe were up for doing Heathrow with incentives. Usual incentives like discounted airport and landing fees or rolled up fees to incl landint charges. They were offered fuck all and told 'Heathrow is in-hand' whilst the Loganair bull crap was going through. My biggest issue here is mismanagement by DOI and DFE of the whole debacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said: Doing some dummy bookings the through fares to Europe seemed pretty good, The extra premium to book BA rather than Loganair just to London seemed pretty high at about £40 each way. Still I have booked a few trips for the summer, get more time there and save the expense of extra nights in hotels lets see how it goes although an ATR is not my favourite to LCY Just note my previous point. If you're booking a through ticket on to BA, remember you'll need to collect your bags and re-drop them at BA desk, so leave enough time, you'll also need to change terminals. Not ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 49 minutes ago, IOM said: When will you realise LCY and LHR are not just used for business? If you ever travelled on those routes pre pandemic you would see. There are lots of people who want to travel from West London ( Oxford, Berkshire etc) and North London (Luton, St Albans etc) for which City or Heathrow are much more convenient than Gatwick. By your own numbers there were nearly 100,000 passengers in other London airports ( Heathrow, City, Luton) and that's not insignificant. I just don't get what you think is the answer if you don't want someone to fly into City or Heathrow just a twice a day Easyjet at random times? I've made the point about the London airports also being local several times already on this thread, thank you. Most recently today. But we keep on being told that the Island must have services to these airports twice daily so as to suit business interests. Not to knock an hour off the time it takes to see Auntie Gwen in Newbury, which might be seen as a less deserving cause for millions of pounds of subsidy. And the point about the 2019 figures is that even with all options available, nearly two thirds of people chose Gatwick. Given the current suppressed demand it's hardly surprising that's what will be concentrated on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOM Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: I've made the point about the London airports also being local several times already on this thread, thank you. Most recently today. But we keep on being told that the Island must have services to these airports twice daily so as to suit business interests. Not to knock an hour off the time it takes to see Auntie Gwen in Newbury, which might be seen as a less deserving cause for millions of pounds of subsidy. And the point about the 2019 figures is that even with all options available, nearly two thirds of people chose Gatwick. Given the current suppressed demand it's hardly surprising that's what will be concentrated on. So I assume you think we should just leave London to EasyJet going into Gatwick ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 minute ago, IOM said: So I assume you think we should just leave London to EasyJet going into Gatwick ? I don't think we should spend £4 million (if that's the guarantee figure) supporting mutually competing routes to LCY and LHR for six months. And then I suspect being left with nothing at the end of it. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOM Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 Just now, Roger Mexico said: I don't think we should spend £4 million (if that's the guarantee figure) supporting mutually competing routes to LCY and LHR for six months. And then I suspect being left with nothing at the end of it. So leave it to EasyJet two rotations at random times in the summer one at random times in the winter ? Sorry I am pressing but you make grand sweeping statements but never provide a clear view of what you think is right and what’s right for the island . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, IOM said: So leave it to EasyJet two rotations at random times in the summer one at random times in the winter ? Sorry I am pressing but you make grand sweeping statements but never provide a clear view of what you think is right and what’s right for the island . Personally I think if you have someone prepared to fly commercially without underwriting (I.e Flybe mk2) then you should try that before you piss away millions to Loganair. As I keep saying, it's not about being pro-easyJet. It's about being commercial. Edited March 23, 2022 by NoTailT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 48 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said: Wasn't the excuse/business case that the rules were changing and if it was not done then the world would end or we could only operate small regional aircraft in future Reynolds was very good at coming up with pronouncements claiming that some capital project was essential and had to be done immediately because of CAA rules. When queried about what the actual rule involved was, she was usually rather vague, even when people pointed to other airports who seemed to get by without the latest 'project'. Yet when she got her new radar system on the same grounds and it took years and years (nearly a decade?) to work and be approved, the CAA were happy to let the old one continue. Funny that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellanvannin2010 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 24 minutes ago, NoTailT said: Just note my previous point. If you're booking a through ticket on to BA, remember you'll need to collect your bags and re-drop them at BA desk, so leave enough time, you'll also need to change terminals. Not ideal. Its not ideal but it is easier than getting from LGW to LHR and much easier than trying to get on to a Jubilee line train at Canning Town at 08.45 to get to LHR. I much prefer the Q400 to the ATR so Flybe would have been a better option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, IOM said: So leave it to EasyJet two rotations at random times in the summer one at random times in the winter ? If that's all the market requires yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellanvannin2010 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Reynolds was very good at coming up with pronouncements claiming that some capital project was essential and had to be done immediately because of CAA rules. When queried about what the actual rule involved was, she was usually rather vague, even when people pointed to other airports who seemed to get by without the latest 'project'. Yet when she got her new radar system on the same grounds and it took years and years (nearly a decade?) to work and be approved, the CAA were happy to let the old one continue. Funny that. You are right and might remember this from 2019 https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/now-you-cannot-see-whos-getting-their-baggage-228791. A few days later I walked into Inverness airport and the baggage belt was in the open as you walked in to the landside concourse, no one way doors, not hidden from view as apparently required here Edited March 23, 2022 by ellanvannin2010 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 I know loads of people dislike it, but I find Luton really handy for London, and always look for a flight there first. Minutes out of the terminal and youre on a train to St Pancras which is also basically kings cross and euston, and you can get anywhere from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOM Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said: If that's all the market requires yes. So the market only requires 18000 a month in the summer and 9000 in the winter ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeoneday Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 Stansted was great, but didnt get enough footfall at the time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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