NoTailT Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said: Didn't Stobart operate some routes out of SEN as a franchise even to the end?. Yes. That was because of common ownership between Stobart Air and Southend Airport, in Stobart Group which is now Esken. I can't recall properly, but I think these routes ended pre-cessation of Flybe itself. They were undertaken as franchise i.e. at Stobart Airs own financial and commercial risk. I remember speaking to Andy who was the Stobart MD several years ago and he never wanted to do the flying, but the owners of the airline and the airport had underpinned it because they wanted passenger growth for the airport. The IOM flying operation was different, that's why it went from Flybe own operations, to Stobart, back to Flybe and then back to Stobart again. It was an ACMI relationship, whether the flying contract was with Flybe, they just sub-operated Stobart in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, NoTailT said: Stobart had their UK AOC and OL approved and ready to go live. Maybe you should FOI the tender details and reason for overturning by the AGs office if you don't believe the facts. Maybe you could give the details as you're so adamant it's true. The only reference I can find anywhere to this whole supposed dispute are your posts on this thread. Stobart had its own AOC, but it didn't have any way of selling its own tickets. In Nov 20 it lost the Aer Lingus contract and announced significant financial problems as a result. Then we had the Ettyl issue and by June 21 it had folded completely leaving passengers stranded. Again. How an insolvent airline with no ability to sell its own tickets can apparently score highest on a tender is...interesting. If Jez did raise questions about their ability and solvency it would show a rare- and very surprising- amount of foresight. All sounds like sour grapes from an airline on skid row that was so badly managed it managed to lose the contract to run the Aer Lingus Regional airline it created in the first place. It's not I don't believe you've been told this, and I know the Manchester flights went off sale very briefly in Dec 20, I just struggle to see how it all fits into the timelines. Stobart were on skid row long before they were supposedly better than Loganair. 2 hours ago, NoTailT said: I disagree with this forced 'use it or lose it' because what the good Dr Allinson is actually telling us is 'spend your money flying Loganair or we'll spend it for you by underwriting it'. Either way, we are paying for it. Yes, that's literally the whole point of subsidising any route that can't operate commercially. The £4m is what it will cost if literally nobody books seats. The arrangement isn't open-ended. We know how much it costs to run empty planes to London because Loganair were doing it during Covid. If the subsidy gets the route established with high load factors then happy days, it begins to operate commercially on its own footing, and the subsidy stops. And if the load factor remains small then clearly business leaders are wrong about how necessary the route is, and the subsidy stops. Ultimately, use it by making it commercially sustainable or lose it. Edited March 24, 2022 by Ringy Rose 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOM Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 2 hours ago, NoTailT said: You continue to misunderstand. Eastern and Blue Islands were Flybe franchises, passed ticket revenue collected by Flybe. Stobart was an ACMI provider subcontracted in by Flybe. Very different relationships and contracts with the end customer. Stobart had their UK AOC and OL approved and ready to go live. Maybe you should FOI the tender details and reason for overturning by the AGs office if you don't believe the facts. The AGs office don't overturn tender decisions lightly. It was a shambles, caused by Jez and he wasn't allowed to sit on the panel when it was retendered. Plus you had that idiot Brian Kelly lobbying via Skelly for Aurigny to be awarded PTS so his business could take back PTS booking revenue. Thankfully that never happened. The fact is we know from historical data what these routes are capable of achieving pre-COVID in terms of passenger numbers and with operating limits on the ATR out of City and penalties at Heathrow, we all know the writing is destined. As I've said previously, I disagree with this forced 'use it or lose it' because what the good Dr Allinson is actually telling us is 'spend your money flying Loganair or we'll spend it for you by underwriting it'. Either way, we are paying for it. I've seen Loganair pitch documents for underwriting somewhere. They present what they believe is achievable in terms of load factor over what period and how much the cash shortfall is. But the load factors are unrealistic in the proposal, meaning the cash underwrites get burnt through. Eastern have played the same game in areas before, its not unique to Loganair. But with the lack of anyone actually knowledgeable in DOI or DFE, nobody is capable of challenging the data. It's not 'stating the obvious'. Interference has existed for some time and now Jez and Annie are gone, I hope DOI can develop some integrity. Why not be a little more positive and encourage people to use the London services ? It seems to me you are only ever able to find fault and be negative and that will get us nowhere. Statements like we all know the writing is destined are not very helpful in my opinion . I have no knowledge of the history around the tendering but I do know strong connections to London are important and I will definitely be using the services ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 so, back on topic, our airport is shit. 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, WTF said: so, back on topic, our airport is shit. The car park is shit. Check-in is shit. Security is shit. Departures is shit. Refreshments are shit. ATC is understaffed (is shit). I think that's covered it. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 plenty of car parking today! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestboy Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 38 minutes ago, doc.fixit said: plenty of car parking today! And still free unlike Chester Street from 1 April with increased charges. how to kill shopping footfall. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellanvannin2010 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 45 minutes ago, doc.fixit said: plenty of car parking today! Wait til the forthcoming school holidays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Can't book IOM - London on the Loganair app. Given how much everyone has been demanding this route I thought it would have been mentioned by multiple posters on every page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellanvannin2010 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, snowman said: Can't book IOM - London on the Loganair app. Given how much everyone has been demanding this route I thought it would have been mentioned by multiple posters on every page Maybe they just booked directly on the website eta just looked on the app and the option is there Edited March 24, 2022 by ellanvannin2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 minute ago, ellanvannin2010 said: Maybe they just booked directly on the website Or via BA for Avios! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOM Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 11 minutes ago, snowman said: Can't book IOM - London on the Loganair app. Given how much everyone has been demanding this route I thought it would have been mentioned by multiple posters on every page I booked through the website ! What is the matter with you I don’t understand why you are so anti anything other than EasyJet? I try to take a balanced view and recognise different people have different needs . You might want to be a bit more positive and reflect on the benefits we will have if people use all the air services to get here . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 10 minutes ago, IOM said: I booked through the website ! What is the matter with you I don’t understand why you are so anti anything other than EasyJet? I try to take a balanced view and recognise different people have different needs . You might want to be a bit more positive and reflect on the benefits we will have if people use all the air services to get here . I am being positive. I am trying to book. The app doesn't have the destination. I know because I am trying to book. App was updated on 13/3 and is the latest version available in the app store Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellanvannin2010 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 minute ago, snowman said: I am being positive. I am trying to book. The app doesn't have the destination. I know because I am trying to book. App was updated on 13/3 and is the latest version available in the app store Works for me just got up to the payment stage. lcy and lhr are both there. Using Android Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOM Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 22 minutes ago, snowman said: I am being positive. I am trying to book. The app doesn't have the destination. I know because I am trying to book. App was updated on 13/3 and is the latest version available in the app store Works for me too ! Isn’t it fantastic we now have options for flying to London ? Hopefully we will get more people coming on island and contributing to the local economy. Great news let’s get the message out there and those planes full ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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