Airport.

[ellanvannin2010]

18 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

I'm not going to get in to an easy vs Logan spat on this but I've flown to Manchester 15 return trips in the past 4 months. 6 of them were easyJet, 9 were Loganair. All bar one Loganair flight I was on was less than half full. One of them was even subbed for an E145 and there was only 8 of us on the flight in total.

Every easy flight I've taken to Manchester has been packed. Very busy.

I think this is ultimately all down to cost for most people rather than convenience. Let's not forget that Flybe used to operate min 4x daily on both Liverpool and Manchester. We have therefore lost a considerable number of seats on the routes and base fares are considerably higher than they used to be. I often recall booking Flybe flights to Liverpool for £35 each way and Manchester for £40+ each way, obviously they are no longer in existence in that guise and for many reasons. But their flights were often very busy or full, as tells in the historical passenger data.

I don't know if Loganair can reduce fares by operating more capacity - if they could even get the planes and staff to do so - but I do think it's a big reason. Flybe also had the benefit of having such a substantial base at Manchester that they could swap non-local crews in very easily when required.

If you look at Gatwick, Bristol and Belfast and how little the gap is versus pre-pandemic, it shows that if schedules and traditional cost bases are restored, then the demand remains.

Other standouts being LCY. BA on Eastern/Loganair were operating 3 - sometimes 4 - return daily trips on a 50 seater aircraft. That compares to what has been only 1 daily for some time on a an ATR at 70 seats - the recent LCY flight I took with loganair was very busy - I think there's scope for recovery here in the numbers, but would be better serviced on the ATR 42-600 rather than a 72. But then, I seem to recall when loganair were operating it for BA on the ATR42, it had major performance issues on busy flights getting out of City.

Edinburgh has been upgauged from a Saab 340 to ATR42 or E145, which gives it more seats and that seems to be benefiting.

The Non-Scheduled seems a crazy increase. But it also makes a lot of sense. I noticed a considerable number of charter aircraft during this TT for example which was much more than normal and the jet centre seems busier than ever.

easyjet culling MAN also makes a lot of sense. It's likely one of if not the shortest sector they operate out of Manchester and if you're looking to buy yourself more buffer room for ATC and ground handling delays, it's an easy place to make a cut. My recent Gatwick flight back to the Island was on an A319 that had the extra rows removed enabling them to operate with only 3 cabin crew, for example.

There's a fair way to go still, the best recovery will be increased frequencies on main routes and keeping base fares low. I still think Loganair would benefit from stripping out the free tunnocks and suitcase, if it meant their base fares came down.

Dublin seems well down too. 
Has the frequency reduced ( I thought it was only daily in 2019 and is similar now) so is that  due to it being a business destination or pax not traveling long haul via DUB I wonder?.

The LCY flights I have taken so far have been pretty busy, LHR much less so, so hopefully the LCY flights will survive in some form  past October.

Edited June 25, 2022 by ellanvannin2010

[NoTailT]

1 minute ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

Dublin seems well down too. 
Has the frequency reduced ( I thought it was only daily in 2019 and is similar now) so is that  due to it being a business destination or pax not traveling long haul via DUB I wonder?.

The LCY flights I have taken so far have been pretty busy, LHR much less so, so hopefully the LCY flights will survive in some form  past October.

I think May probably wasn't the best month to be looking at for any of the routes because this year TT practice week started later in May versus 2019. Pre-COVID and during TT, Aer Lingus would operate 3 daily flights, sometimes more. I don't recall seeing that upgauge this TT, but I could be wrong. In 2019, TT was May 25, 2019 – Jun 7, 2019 so you had 'more' of TT in May too, which means more frequency and seats. I seem to recall outside of TT, Aer Lingus would have 2 flights on some days didn't they?

Your London experience mimics mine though, City busy, Heathrow not.

[snowman]

23 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

You may be right but the excuse given by EZY is ATC restrictions

This was cancelled before the terminal issue 

[WTF]

53 minutes ago, snowman said:

This was cancelled before the terminal issue 

but if it helps them get out of paying compo who are we to argue.

[Numbnuts]

9 minutes ago, WTF said:

but if it helps them get out of paying compo who are we to argue.

Seems they are using every angle to get out of paying compo. Needs looked at as clearly it would seem lots of times they should be coughing up. I'm away in late November with Easyjet and not confident in any shape or form...Not good for any confidence in travel to and from IOM for visitors either. Government need to be watching this situation very closely. But not sure they are.

[asitis]

Anyone know if this is true .....

There are two sections of security at the airport bit like blue and red watch if you like ....... Blue watch hold a security exercise using a dummy bomb type of thing, red watch, who were presumably unaware, come on duty and the dummy bomb thing is scanned as they are not aware of it's presence ... then the airport gets shut and evacuated !

One of the security guys got very touchy when asked about this !

 

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

Dublin seems well down too. 
Has the frequency reduced ( I thought it was only daily in 2019 and is similar now) so is that  due to it being a business destination or pax not traveling long haul via DUB I wonder?.

The LCY flights I have taken so far have been pretty busy, LHR much less so, so hopefully the LCY flights will survive in some form  past October.

Dublin only started again in March, so it may be taking some time to get back to previous levels - people may have booked indirect flights in advance for instance.  Six days a week I think but not Saturday, which suggests a business component.

I was very surprised that LHR was higher than LCY, to the extent that I checked the figures.  Can't cross-check with CAA as May not loaded.

I don't think the figures will be much altered by a shift in TT dates as TT air travel is shorter and more central[1].

Thinking about it, I should have included MAN as more of a business destination like BHX and LCY and some of the decline there may come from that.

 

[1]  Looking at the 2019 figures, which does show some early TT departure in May, I do wonder if there is some over-counting of TT visitors.  I can't imagine many people flying over specifically for the pre-TT and then back again.  It's possible they are including anyone who says they might be looking at some of the racing, even though the purpose of their visit is really something else.

[Roger Mexico]

41 minutes ago, asitis said:

Anyone know if this is true .....

There are two sections of security at the airport bit like blue and red watch if you like ....... Blue watch hold a security exercise using a dummy bomb type of thing, red watch, who were presumably unaware, come on duty and the dummy bomb thing is scanned as they are not aware of it's presence ... then the airport gets shut and evacuated !

One of the security guys got very touchy when asked about this !

One one hand it sounds like an urban myth.  On the other... it is Ronaldsway.

Anyone one know how Chris Thomas's review of the incident is getting on?

[ellanvannin2010]

6 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Dublin only started again in March, so it may be taking some time to get back to previous levels - people may have booked indirect flights in advance for instance.  Six days a week I think but not Saturday, which suggests a business component.

I was very surprised that LHR was higher than LCY, to the extent that I checked the figures.  Can't cross-check with CAA as May not loaded.

I don't think the figures will be much altered by a shift in TT dates as TT air travel is shorter and more central[1].

Thinking about it, I should have included MAN as more of a business destination like BHX and LCY and some of the decline there may come from that.

 

[1]  Looking at the 2019 figures, which does show some early TT departure in May, I do wonder if there is some over-counting of TT visitors.  I can't imagine many people flying over specifically for the pre-TT and then back again.  It's possible they are including anyone who says they might be looking at some of the racing, even though the purpose of their visit is really something else.

You could probably say the flights to LCY and LHR  had only just restarted though if you say that about DUB. People may have already booked on the EZY LGW service before those were announced (I had a few trips like that as at the time of booking there was no alternative)

Edited June 25, 2022 by ellanvannin2010

[Roger Mexico]

12 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

You could probably say the flights to LCY and LHR  had only just restarted though if you say that about DUB. People may have already booked on the EZY LGW service before those were announced (I had a few trips like that as at the time of booking there was no alternative)

LCY possibly, but LHR was in the same position as it had been three years previously.

[gerremonside]

2 hours ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

You may be right but the excuse given by EZY is ATC restrictions

Yep, it will be the fact that ATC at IOM can't work beyond 2315 as it exceeds the legal length of shift. I can only presume as so often happens with EZY, they decided that if they ran inbound there was a risk they might not be able to depart back if they got a slot restriction ( due to the runway work at lgw). 

So very indirectly ATC delay.... 

[swoopy2110]

3 hours ago, gerremonside said:

Nope. Yesterdays was due to terminal disruption at lgw, today, the aircraft still isn't anywhere close to arriving back from Nice over half an hour after it was due to depart to IOM.

That said, EZY COULD operate the service LGW to IOM well before ATC run out of hours but choose not to for their convenience. 

Please check your facts swoopy....

I did. Yesterday the flight was cancelled about 1.30pm with the app showing the reason as ATC restrictions. If any terminal issue occurred it was after the flight was already cancelled. At that time the aircraft operating the flight was on schedule on the afternoon run.

Today when I wrote the post the aircraft was just over half an hour late landing in Nice (pretty much on time) and time that could easily be made up in the return leg. No idea what caused the return leg to be so delayed but at the time I wrote it it hadn't left yet and wasn't that late.

I don't know what ATC restrictions again that caused the flight to be cancelled which is what they're cited again on the app today. 

My facts were fine ta.

Edited June 25, 2022 by swoopy2110

[swoopy2110]

2 hours ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

Dublin seems well down too. 
Has the frequency reduced ( I thought it was only daily in 2019 and is similar now) so is that  due to it being a business destination or pax not traveling long haul via DUB I wonder?.

The LCY flights I have taken so far have been pretty busy, LHR much less so, so hopefully the LCY flights will survive in some form  past October.

Dublin for me is still partially down to the lack of morning flight. This used to allow seemless transatlantic connections all on a through ticket. People going via Dublin to go the US now have to go the night before which may be putting some off / seeing is as more hassle than going to the UK where there are more options to fall back on if something goes wrong. I hope they reintroduce this soon.

[Boris Johnson]

11 hours ago, asitis said:

Anyone know if this is true .....

There are two sections of security at the airport bit like blue and red watch if you like ....... Blue watch hold a security exercise using a dummy bomb type of thing, red watch, who were presumably unaware, come on duty and the dummy bomb thing is scanned as they are not aware of it's presence ... then the airport gets shut and evacuated !

One of the security guys got very touchy when asked about this !

 

Sounds like something that could happen, (Did this not happen at Manchester airport? Or Old Trafford?) trouble is, if it did normal way to deal with it would be standard IOM CS - Lie

This leads to all sorts on problems with the staff,, most of who will not be in agreement with lying on even just a basic right or wrong thing to do level. This is how the culture of bullying and coverups continues to build and its 100% through all government departments.

The other option , if it is indeed what happened would be to say yes, we messed up, we apologise and we are now implementing new procedures to ensure this never happens again. 

Imagine how nice it would be for a change for the latter option to be what they did and for it to be the only way to deal with mistakes in future across government.

As Bernard Manning? used to say "He who has made no mistakes throws the first stone" 

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Boris Johnson

[doc.fixit]

12 hours ago, asitis said:

Anyone know if this is true .....

There are two sections of security at the airport bit like blue and red watch if you like ....... Blue watch hold a security exercise using a dummy bomb type of thing, red watch, who were presumably unaware, come on duty and the dummy bomb thing is scanned as they are not aware of it's presence ... then the airport gets shut and evacuated !

One of the security guys got very touchy when asked about this !

 

I heard it was a practice programme on the scanner that had been left on or accidently corrupted a scan and there was no bomb, only in the programme...........maybe.