snowman Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said: EasyJet won't fly if they think their plane will get stuck here overnight. They decided to fly the BRS plane to the island having made the decision it was going to night stop Edited October 19, 2021 by snowman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassie2 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, IOM said: Where did I say I want the government to pay huge subsidies ? That’s an assumption on your part that is totally incorrect! It is a complex issue but with some clever thinking a solution could be found to meet everyone’s needs . The London City service was operating fine prior to the pandemic because a solution was found using the private sector to underwrite it at no cost to the taxpayer . I would recommend you do a little more research and understand the facts before making sweeping statements of this nature . And I recommend that you do likewise! It is ridiculous for you to assume someone has not done so The 'private sector' as such did not underwrite the BA franchise LCY route. A single online gambling company with at that time a very large need for the route did so and it then withdrew its support. During the first 18 months or so of Covid19 here, the IOMG heavily subsidised the route and ditto the LHR route when LCY closed to scheduled pax flights. You will also presumably be aware of the unstable history of the LCY route and the number of former operators. In busier demand times for business travel then than there is now or is likely to be going forward. Your assertion that 'with some clever thinking a solution could be found to meet everyone’s needs' is pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking and avoids actually putting forward any such solution. It also very foolishly assumes that you know better than all the airline operators, senior aviation professionals and the IOMG. Unlike you they know the economics. I do too. You sadly do not. Perhaps you will take your own unsolicited advice now and 'do a little more research and understand the facts before making sweeping statements....'. to quote your goodself above! Edited October 19, 2021 by Cassie2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, snowman said: They decided to fly the BRS plane to the island having made the decision it was going to night stop True enough, once it was late enough that it wasn't needed anywhere else. I don't blame them for their normal operational decisions, I really don't. But it's a downside of the airline not having a plane and crew based here. 14 minutes ago, Cassie2 said: Unlike you they know the economics. I do too. You sadly do not. What are the economics then? As an outsider I'd say it's obvious that small planes flying from a small market into a big airport requires subsidy, if for nothing else because of the landing fees charged by LHR. But it wouldn't be the subsidy Loganair required during Covid, when that LHR flight typically had 2-5 people on it. I think it is a mistake not to pay the required subsidy to keep the links. But similar short-sighted decisions are why we also no longer have reliable business links with the island of Ireland. OpenSkies and "the market" is great for leisure and discretionary travel, not so much for requirements outside of that. One also notes the frequency and consistency of EasyJet flights to the island from Londom drop in the summer, when EZY use the planes and slots for more profitable flights to European sunspots. Of course they do, they're a business, it makes sense. What doesn't make sense is leaving the island beholden to them. Edited October 19, 2021 by Ringy Rose 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOM Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 24 minutes ago, Cassie2 said: And I recommend that you do likewise! It is ridiculous for you to assume someone has not done so The 'private sector' as such did not underwrite the BA franchise LCY route. A single online gambling company with at that time a very large need for the route did so and it then withdrew its support. During the first 18 months or so of Covid19 here, the IOMG heavily subsidised the route and ditto the LHR route when LCY closed to scheduled pax flights. You will also presumably be aware of the unstable history of the LCY route and the number of former operators. In busier demand times for business travel then than there is now or is likely to be going forward. Your assertion that 'with some clever thinking a solution could be found to meet everyone’s needs' is pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking and avoids actually putting forward any such solution. It also very foolishly assumes that you know better than all the airline operators, senior aviation professionals and the IOMG. Unlike you they know the economics. I do too. You sadly do not. Perhaps you will take your own unsolicited advice now and 'do a little more research and understand the facts before making sweeping statements....'. to quote your goodself above! Well it is ridiculous for you to assume that I want the IOMG to provide a huge subsidy then go on to give me a whole load of information about the financial position on the island. Total nonsense and a blatant misrepresentation of my comments! And lets look at your comments in a little more detail . Of course the private sector underwrote the route prior to covid or is a single online gambling company now in the public sector? Secondly how do you know the potential and future demand for a business like route be it LHR, LCY or LGW I take it you have carried out in depth research and therefore know? if so please do share it for all on the forum. Thirdly clearly clever thinking has never resolved seeming impossible things in the past? If you don't try then how do you know? And no I don't know all of those sectors but I think if you had senior people from government, senior people from airlines, senior people from business and some passengers in a room together the seed of an idea might just might be found. If not what is lost? The other answer is to tell people they have pie in the sky ideas which will for sure get us all exactly.........nowhere! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarley Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 FFS you two, get a room! 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOM Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Zarley said: FFS you two, get a room! Sorry I thought this was a forum for debate and discussion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 I am an aviator not an accountant, so I don't pretend to understand the economics. However the phrase "small market" which is entirely true, is completely the opposite of what an open skies policy would ideally be suited to, common sense seems to say ! Suitable aircraft flying protected routes ( with service level guarantees and price controls) would seem to require less subsidy than trying to run a non economic service based solely on subsidy alone ! What is needed is some business acumen and strategy at the airport, not the joke management we have been subject to for the past few years ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 24 minutes ago, asitis said: I am an aviator not an accountant, so I don't pretend to understand the economics. However the phrase "small market" which is entirely true, is completely the opposite of what an open skies policy would ideally be suited to, common sense seems to say ! Suitable aircraft flying protected routes ( with service level guarantees and price controls) would seem to require less subsidy than trying to run a non economic service based solely on subsidy alone ! What is needed is some business acumen and strategy at the airport, not the joke management we have been subject to for the past few years ! 9 hours ago, Cassie2 said: And I recommend that you do likewise! It is ridiculous for you to assume someone has not done so The 'private sector' as such did not underwrite the BA franchise LCY route. A single online gambling company with at that time a very large need for the route did so and it then withdrew its support. During the first 18 months or so of Covid19 here, the IOMG heavily subsidised the route and ditto the LHR route when LCY closed to scheduled pax flights. You will also presumably be aware of the unstable history of the LCY route and the number of former operators. In busier demand times for business travel then than there is now or is likely to be going forward. Your assertion that 'with some clever thinking a solution could be found to meet everyone’s needs' is pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking and avoids actually putting forward any such solution. It also very foolishly assumes that you know better than all the airline operators, senior aviation professionals and the IOMG. Unlike you they know the economics. I do too. You sadly do not. Perhaps you will take your own unsolicited advice now and 'do a little more research and understand the facts before making sweeping statements....'. to quote your goodself above! 8 hours ago, IOM said: Well it is ridiculous for you to assume that I want the IOMG to provide a huge subsidy then go on to give me a whole load of information about the financial position on the island. Total nonsense and a blatant misrepresentation of my comments! And lets look at your comments in a little more detail . Of course the private sector underwrote the route prior to covid or is a single online gambling company now in the public sector? Secondly how do you know the potential and future demand for a business like route be it LHR, LCY or LGW I take it you have carried out in depth research and therefore know? if so please do share it for all on the forum. Thirdly clearly clever thinking has never resolved seeming impossible things in the past? If you don't try then how do you know? And no I don't know all of those sectors but I think if you had senior people from government, senior people from airlines, senior people from business and some passengers in a room together the seed of an idea might just might be found. If not what is lost? The other answer is to tell people they have pie in the sky ideas which will for sure get us all exactly.........nowhere! The truth is that the IoM routes have never been stable, we’ve had operators, from big to fly by night, come and go, with monotonous regularity and striking frequency, under both open skies, and the previous regulated market, over the last 70 years. The only ones who stuck it out long term, 20+ years, have been Manx & Easy. Most did a year or two, more likely a season or two, a few got to five and the odd one or two got to 10+. Whats for sure is that we don’t want a monopoly or an Aurigny. The balance between stable services and the demand for low prices is a hard one. As for @Cassie2 suggestion that LoganAir is locally based, that’s laughable. They aren’t. They station aircraft here overnight. They’d be gone like a shot if their routes weren’t profitable, or being subsidised. Having aircraft based here has upsides and downsides, for us and them. But to be really effective needs a critical mass like Manx had. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassie2 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 9 hours ago, IOM said: Well it is ridiculous for you to assume that I want the IOMG to provide a huge subsidy then go on to give me a whole load of information about the financial position on the island. Total nonsense and a blatant misrepresentation of my comments! And lets look at your comments in a little more detail . Of course the private sector underwrote the route prior to covid or is a single online gambling company now in the public sector? Secondly how do you know the potential and future demand for a business like route be it LHR, LCY or LGW I take it you have carried out in depth research and therefore know? if so please do share it for all on the forum. Thirdly clearly clever thinking has never resolved seeming impossible things in the past? If you don't try then how do you know? And no I don't know all of those sectors but I think if you had senior people from government, senior people from airlines, senior people from business and some passengers in a room together the seed of an idea might just might be found. If not what is lost? The other answer is to tell people they have pie in the sky ideas which will for sure get us all exactly.........nowhere! We shall see soon enough who is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Grow the population to 100,000 and grow the economy .... Then there will be air services just like Jersey have. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 There is always the boat….. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 2 hours ago, hissingsid said: There is always the boat….. Douglas Departure: 19:45 - Ben-my-ChreeHeysham Expected Arrival: 23:30 Due to the forecast adverse weather this sailing is subject to possible disruption or cancellation. To give this sailing every opportunity to take place, a final decision will be made by the Master by 17:30hrs today. THURSDAY, 21 OCTOBER 2021 Heysham Departure: 02:15 - Ben-my-ChreeDouglas Expected Arrival: 06:00 Due to the forecast adverse weather this sailing is subject to possible disruption or cancellation. To give this sailing every opportunity to take place, a final decision will be made by the Master by 17:30hrs today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Someone will be along soon to suggest a government subsidy for a 2nd ferry operator who will go in any weather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 (edited) Great to see 03 / 21 is still closed in the weather we have at the moment ! I think the original notam was for the 29th August to open. Another prom maybe LOL !! Edited October 27, 2021 by asitis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 (edited) Airport Director job is out. £10k relocation package. Up to £103k/Yr https://www.jobtrain.co.uk/iomgovjobs/displayjob.aspx?jobid=13562 Edited October 27, 2021 by NoTailT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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