Airport.

[asitis]

9 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

But most of the 'extras' didn't arise from the demands of easyJet or any actual needs they had.  They started flying to the Island before the runway extension was ready and most of the other stuff either predates them or was done for other 'reasons'.  At most Reynolds used their potential withdrawal as a threat, but there's no evidence they ever made such threats. 

Airport management have turned the airport into a "money pit" with no discernible benefit for travellers. I say no discernible benefit, as there may be some cheaper fares but the choice of where and when is limited ! At least one has now gone, but another with massive delusions of how the island is placed financially is still in place, and intent on development as a measure of management style and success. The IOM airport is a niche market airport, and many businesses are happy to operate in a niche market but it seems we are not, operationally the place is a shambles.

[Cassie2]

On 11/6/2021 at 9:22 AM, Non-Believer said:

Jebus, don't mention light rail system, Longworth will be all over it like a rash and there'll be another £10M spent....

You surely mean £100 million minimum?

[NoTailT]

On 11/5/2021 at 6:03 PM, Ringy Rose said:

The IOM-Edinburgh is operated commercially AFAIK, as is IOM-Birmingham, though obviously they have the patient transfer work.

But yes, quite a bit of Loganair's traffic in Scotland is PSO.

Let's not forget when 'the great Loganair, saviour of our Island' threatened the IOM Gov that they'd pull routes if PTS wasn't awarded to them.

Even going as far as to take flights off sale temporarily to make a point when they found out it was going back out to open tender.

[Ringy Rose]

3 hours ago, NoTailT said:

Let's not forget when 'the great Loganair, saviour of our Island' threatened the IOM Gov that they'd pull routes if PTS wasn't awarded to them.

One man's "threaten" is another man's "point out certain routes aren't commercially viable without the PTS work".

It's not Loganair good EasyJet bad, though. The point is if we want services on our terms we will need to pay for them, just as we do for the PTS. Otherwise we end up with a holiday airline flying at random times and charging a fortune to do so. Reliance on OpenSkies means business travel to Ireland is impossible, and very inconvenient to London.

I don't care who the tenders go to, Eastern would be just as good, or even EasyJet if they decide to play the PSO game. We just need sensible links at a sensible price (and EasyJet's predatory £19.99 fares are not sensible).

Edited November 7, 2021 by Ringy Rose

[NoTailT]

2 hours ago, Ringy Rose said:

One man's "threaten" is another man's "point out certain routes aren't commercially viable without the PTS work".

It's not Loganair good EasyJet bad, though. The point is if we want services on our terms we will need to pay for them, just as we do for the PTS. Otherwise we end up with a holiday airline flying at random times and charging a fortune to do so. Reliance on OpenSkies means business travel to Ireland is impossible, and very inconvenient to London.

I don't care who the tenders go to, Eastern would be just as good, or even EasyJet if they decide to play the PSO game. We just need sensible links at a sensible price (and EasyJet's predatory £19.99 fares are not sensible).

Agree entirely on the latter points.

I just don't think we should be going full speed ahead with an airline that has a habit of throwing toys out of the pram. It gives us zero stability. Same reason that Loganair were never favoured for the Newquay - London PSO.

Like or loathe easy, they do at least show consistency (timetables aside). Also glad to see them put competition on Manchester now.

Edited November 7, 2021 by NoTailT

[Lost Login]

On 11/5/2021 at 11:04 AM, John Wright said:

And let’s be clear, we might get regular if we regulate routes, we may get cheap if we have open skies. You won’t get both. But regulated routes spell monopoly and high cost. Open skies spell budgets and unreliability if the rotations are end of day after it’s flown half a dozen different sectors.

I have long thought that what would best suite is a hybrid system whereby we effectively have an open skies policy but on certain routes to fly it you have to commit a minimum number of flights per day and between X hours. So if you want to operate on say London, Liverpool or Manchester routes then it is open to any operator to do so but they must do a minimum of two returns daily with one  departing before say 9:00 am and one returning after say 7:00pm 

[IOM]

2 hours ago, NoTailT said:

Agree entirely on the latter points.

I just don't think we should be going full speed ahead with an airline that has a habit of throwing toys out of the pram. It gives us zero stability. Same reason that Loganair were never favoured for the Newquay - London PSO.

Like or loathe easy, they do at least show consistency (timetables aside). Also glad to see them put competition on Manchester now.

As you say Easyjet they have very inconsistent timetables and for an island regularly timed flights is vital. The current London offer from them is also dreadful ( mixed times, poor times, one a day and high fares) and putting the island in a dangerous situation in comparison to other jurisdictions. They are fine operating a once a day service for casual travellers but the island needs an early morning and evening flight as well. 

[asitis]

In all of these deliberations, the patient transfer contract should have given us some leverage to review what is vital to us, and take a sensible but strong negotiating position. We needed some light touch regulation to get the vital bits, if the proponents of open skies wanted to leave the rest to a bun fight , then I guess that could have happened. As it is, and as usual, we couldn't negotiate ourselves out of a paper bag ! How many utterly commercially dreadful contracts I wonder, are we tied into across Government ?

Edited November 8, 2021 by asitis

[John Wright]

8 hours ago, IOM said:

As you say Easyjet they have very inconsistent timetables and for an island regularly timed flights is vital. The current London offer from them is also dreadful ( mixed times, poor times, one a day and high fares) and putting the island in a dangerous situation in comparison to other jurisdictions. They are fine operating a once a day service for casual travellers but the island needs an early morning and evening flight as well. 

But easyJet, unlike, say, Ryanair or Wizz, aren’t yet operating a full timetable. There are huge gaps in their route network, and schedules on operating routes, compared to February 2020.

We have the flights that support demand. If demand increases there’ll be more flights. And flight prices are only high on days of high demand. But when you operate 150 seat aircraft you don’t put on a second aircraft rotation just because 151 people want to fly 

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, asitis said:

In all of these deliberations, the patient transfer contract should have given us some leverage to review what is vital to us, and take a sensible but strong negotiating position. We needed some light touch regulation to get the vital bits, if the proponents of open skies wanted to leave the rest to a bun fight , then I guess that could have happened. As it is, and as usual, we couldn't negotiate ourselves out of a paper bag ! How many utterly commercially dreadful contracts I wonder, are we tied into across Government ?

I think it has. It’s what underpinned the negotiations with Flybe and Logan Air. EasyJet aren’t interested in PT.

[Ringy Rose]

2 hours ago, asitis said:

In all of these deliberations, the patient transfer contract should have given us some leverage to review what is vital to us, and take a sensible but strong negotiating position

To a large extent it has.

Loganair only have a base here because of the PTS work. It's the PTS work that funds the ATR72 living here and, ultimately, underpins the Manchester and Birmingham flights too. Edinburgh is flown separately from the Scottish end.  It'll be interesting if the EasyJet competition affects the Manchester route.

There aren't many airlines equipped for PSO work right now, it's really either Loganair or Eastern. Loganair have interline agreements with most major airlines, which makes them a better proposition, but Eastern are a professional airline too. Either would do a good job.

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

But easyJet, unlike, say, Ryanair or Wizz, aren’t yet operating a full timetable. There are huge gaps in their route network, and schedules on operating routes, compared to February 2020.

If their wider timetable stabilises it might improve, but EasyJet will fly here when it's convenient for them not us. We see this in normal summers when EasyJet cut the Gatwick flights as the Gatwick slots are more lucrative for European flights. They're useful for tourism and off-island leisure travel, and their continued presence keeps the other airlines honest. They've flown here consistently for a long time and are welcome, it's just we can't build essential transport links off the back of a holiday airline.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Ringy Rose

[IOM]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

But easyJet, unlike, say, Ryanair or Wizz, aren’t yet operating a full timetable. There are huge gaps in their route network, and schedules on operating routes, compared to February 2020.

We have the flights that support demand. If demand increases there’ll be more flights. And flight prices are only high on days of high demand. But when you operate 150 seat aircraft you don’t put on a second aircraft rotation just because 151 people want to fly 

I am sorry but I disagree I think there is more demand perhaps there are some facts you are missing . Firstly Easyjet are now on most flights putting on the A320 which has 186 seats not 156. Secondly take a look at the current costs up to £250.00 one way!!!!!! That's because the demand is such that the airline algorithm is forcing up the fare price. I think a lot of people are now having to fly to Liverpool or Birmingham and getting the train into London is this really the outcome we want for the island? The fact that we have been left in this mess is ridiculous this is the legacy of the previous Airports Director! And the right solution is not more Easyjets with 150 plus seats but a twice a day early morning and evening service ( 50-76 seater) to add to the current Easyjet rotation. Frequency has a major role to play on the London route in my opinion. 

[John Wright]

2 hours ago, IOM said:

I am sorry but I disagree I think there is more demand perhaps there are some facts you are missing . Firstly Easyjet are now on most flights putting on the A320 which has 186 seats not 156. Secondly take a look at the current costs up to £250.00 one way!!!!!! That's because the demand is such that the airline algorithm is forcing up the fare price. I think a lot of people are now having to fly to Liverpool or Birmingham and getting the train into London is this really the outcome we want for the island? The fact that we have been left in this mess is ridiculous this is the legacy of the previous Airports Director! And the right solution is not more Easyjets with 150 plus seats but a twice a day early morning and evening service ( 50-76 seater) to add to the current Easyjet rotation. Frequency has a major role to play on the London route in my opinion. 

The actual number, 150 or 186, is irrelevant. Its the principle. In fact fares between now and end December range from £25 to £229 single. 75% of days its below £60. The high fares are peak demand days, weekends and run up to Xmas and New Year

Easy are only flying the A320 here because it fits in with the rest of that aircraft's rotations on any day.

Nothing to stop Logan or Eastern, or anyone else flying to City or LHR or LGW if they think there is the traffic. I agree we need an early and late rotation. But the fact they aren't, and there was a statement from Logan saying they were stopping because there was no more subsidy, should tell you something.

I'm missing nothing. Neither is my analysis.

Its good to blame Ann, and I agree she was useless. But the mess is BA pulling out, Flybe going bust ( even with the PT contract) and Covid.

Flying is not back to normal yet. It'll take time. Meanwhile IoM has to decide whether to go for subsidy or public service grants for some routes.

Have you compared fares on the Logan network for the days Easy charges a fortune? They're  higher, and I thought that was impossible!

[hissingsid]

Anyone heard of a problem today at the airport ?    A report on facebook has just said planes are having a problem landing, a couple turned away.   Could be a load of rubbish, nothing on M R. but this was on the Isle of Man forum with pictures of the tracking of the planes.   The first plane allegedly overshot the runway and was the EasyJet from Liverpool.   

[James Blonde]

3 hours ago, Ringy Rose said:

There aren't many airlines equipped for PSO work right now, it's really either Loganair or Eastern. Loganair have interline agreements with most major airlines, which makes them a better proposition, but Eastern are a professional airline too. Either would do a good job.

Flybe are on the verge of a return to the sky. They've had 2 Q400s delivered to Exeter in the last week.