Airport.

[Ringy Rose]

3 hours ago, NoTailT said:

Lack of subsidy to Loganair coffers more likely!!

Doubt it. Loganair are a business, if there was shitloads of cash to make they'd be piling in. So would EasyJet. Or Eastern. Or BA.

I'm more interested in what happens with the Manchester route. EasyJet are charging £22.99 for a lot of flights, that won't even cover the APD and the terminal fees, although I'm well aware it's now £15 extra minimum to take a cabin bag bigger than a thimble.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Ringy Rose

[NoTailT]

19 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

Doubt it. Loganair are a business, if there was shitloads of cash to make they'd be piling in. So would EasyJet. Or Eastern. Or BA.

I'm more interested in what happens with the Manchester route. EasyJet are charging £22.99 for a lot of flights, that won't even cover the APD and the terminal fees, although I'm well aware it's now £15 extra minimum to take a cabin bag bigger than a thimble.

My 2 recent EasyJet Manchester flights were not very busy. My 2 recent Loganair flights were abysmally quiet.

Something will give. Suspect it'll be Loganair now EasyJet have decided to continue Manchester in to the summer.

[Roger Mexico]

One of the predictable things about the Airport is that they appear to have stopped publishing any data about passenger numbers - indeed even historic information seems to have vanished.   Maybe they're hoping they can just proclaim it's 2 million a year and give themselves bonuses.

Equally predictably this hiding is also pointless as the UK CAA publishes monthly data, so you find things out, you just have to duplicate the work that someone at the Airport does but then doesn't publish.  These are the passenger figures for October:

If there was only one Gatwick flight a day (and there may have been more some days) that average 173 pax per flight.

[asitis]

We are Okay all is well !

https://www.flightglobal.com/flight-international/boosting-performance-at-the-isle-of-man-airport/138038.article

FFS.

[asitis]

8 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

One of the predictable things about the Airport is that they appear to have stopped publishing any data about passenger numbers - indeed even historic information seems to have vanished.   Maybe they're hoping they can just proclaim it's 2 million a year and give themselves bonuses.

Equally predictably this hiding is also pointless as the UK CAA publishes monthly data, so you find things out, you just have to duplicate the work that someone at the Airport does but then doesn't publish.  These are the passenger figures for October:

If there was only one Gatwick flight a day (and there may have been more some days) that average 173 pax per flight.

Looks a bit short of two million to me, in fact in the article Mr Spake speaks of one million ! looks a bit short of that too !!

[the stinking enigma]

Has jeremy got a calendar out this year? Would make a great chrimbo pressie for my brother

[swoopy2110]

9 hours ago, NoTailT said:

My 2 recent EasyJet Manchester flights were not very busy. My 2 recent Loganair flights were abysmally quiet.

Something will give. Suspect it'll be Loganair now EasyJet have decided to continue Manchester in to the summer.

 

Loganair have cancelled the morning flight to Manchester from January onwards at least 2 days a week (Tue & Wed), could be Thursday too.

 

Looks like the start of the downfall.

We did an Easy return to MCR at the weekend and it was 'busy' but not as busy as I've seen on the LPL route. I am due to go to MCR again tomorrow and it looks abysmally quiet looking at the seating plan.

Edited December 14, 2021 by swoopy2110

[IOM]

9 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

One of the predictable things about the Airport is that they appear to have stopped publishing any data about passenger numbers - indeed even historic information seems to have vanished.   Maybe they're hoping they can just proclaim it's 2 million a year and give themselves bonuses.

Equally predictably this hiding is also pointless as the UK CAA publishes monthly data, so you find things out, you just have to duplicate the work that someone at the Airport does but then doesn't publish.  These are the passenger figures for October:

If there was only one Gatwick flight a day (and there may have been more some days) that average 173 pax per flight.

This data shows its absolutely ridiculous that London is only served by one flight a day when Liverpool and Manchester get 3 or 4 a day. I would also hazard a guess that the Birmingham and Bristol numbers are inflated by London travellers who can't book or can't afford ( up to £300 one way tickets before luggage costs) on the Gatwick flight.  I suspect The Isle of Man/ Gatwick route is one of the most profitable for Easyjet right now!  Please someone somewhere sort this London flight mess out. 

[Ringy Rose]

10 hours ago, NoTailT said:

My 2 recent EasyJet Manchester flights were not very busy. My 2 recent Loganair flights were abysmally quiet.

Something will give. Suspect it'll be Loganair now EasyJet have decided to continue Manchester in to the summer.

I think it'll be the same as the Belfast flight. Loganair will pull their daily flight, and then EasyJet will decide they can only be arsed to fly on a Friday and a Sunday. EasyJet's presence causing a net loss for the island. Again.

I'm really no tubthumper for Loganair, but competition doesn't work on these routes.

[IOM]

1 minute ago, Ringy Rose said:

I think it'll be the same as the Belfast flight. Loganair will pull their daily flight, and then EasyJet will decide they can only be arsed to fly on a Friday and a Sunday. EasyJet's presence causing a net loss for the island. Again.

I'm really no tubthumper for Loganair, but competition doesn't work on these routes.

Easyjet have a role to play in offering a casual service at irregular times of the day on the London route for those who are not bothered by the time of day travel. Its very telling to me that they don't put on another rotation out of London but they are happy to run flights in and out of Manchester with such low numbers I wonder why that is! 

What I have consistently said for London the island needs regular well timed flights with an early morning off island and evening return .  The fact that it has been left this long is a disgrace and detrimental to business on the island. In my view someone at the DOI need to get a grip and fast. 

[Ringy Rose]

Agreed. EasyJet are a holiday airline and they have a role to play in providing leisure capacity to the island. The problem comes when that leisure capacity starts to undermine the viability of essential routes, as we saw with Flybe and Eastern both being unable to make the Belfast flight work in the face of capacity dumping. The loss of Eastern was even worse, with the island losing links to Newcastle too.

The only things that might help the Manchester flight are a) the patient transfers work mostly pays for the ATR72 to live here and b) the ATR72 is a cheap plane to operate. But the Edinburgh flight is run separately from the Scottish end, I could see Loganair pulling Manchester and sending the ATR72 to Scotland instead.

As for London business flights, it's been clear for a long time that they require subsidy to make them profitable. BA CityFlyer couldn't make it work, nor could Loganair. Previously it was subsidy from the private sector that kept it going, which was crazy in itself. If we want to be a finance centre it seems short-sighted to refuse to pay the required subsidy, when you look at everything else IOMG seems happy to spunk money over.

[asitis]

5 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

Agreed. EasyJet are a holiday airline and they have a role to play in providing leisure capacity to the island. The problem comes when that leisure capacity starts to undermine the viability of essential routes, as we saw with Flybe and Eastern both being unable to make the Belfast flight work in the face of capacity dumping. The loss of Eastern was even worse, with the island losing links to Newcastle too.

The only things that might help the Manchester flight are a) the patient transfers work mostly pays for the ATR72 to live here and b) the ATR72 is a cheap plane to operate. But the Edinburgh flight is run separately from the Scottish end, I could see Loganair pulling Manchester and sending the ATR72 to Scotland instead.

As for London business flights, it's been clear for a long time that they require subsidy to make them profitable. BA CityFlyer couldn't make it work, nor could Loganair. Previously it was subsidy from the private sector that kept it going, which was crazy in itself. If we want to be a finance centre it seems short-sighted to refuse to pay the required subsidy, when you look at everything else IOMG seems happy to spunk money over.

You are right maybe 100 million so people can go shopping FFS !

[cheesypeas]

14 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

Agreed. EasyJet are a holiday airline and they have a role to play in providing leisure capacity to the island. The problem comes when that leisure capacity starts to undermine the viability of essential routes, as we saw with Flybe and Eastern both being unable to make the Belfast flight work in the face of capacity dumping. The loss of Eastern was even worse, with the island losing links to Newcastle too.

The only things that might help the Manchester flight are a) the patient transfers work mostly pays for the ATR72 to live here and b) the ATR72 is a cheap plane to operate. But the Edinburgh flight is run separately from the Scottish end, I could see Loganair pulling Manchester and sending the ATR72 to Scotland instead.

As for London business flights, it's been clear for a long time that they require subsidy to make them profitable. BA CityFlyer couldn't make it work, nor could Loganair. Previously it was subsidy from the private sector that kept it going, which was crazy in itself. If we want to be a finance centre it seems short-sighted to refuse to pay the required subsidy, when you look at everything else IOMG seems happy to spunk money over.

Holiday Airline ? Have you see their network? They are certainly no holiday airline. Jet 2 & Tui maybe. 

[IOM]

6 minutes ago, asitis said:

You are right maybe 100 million so people can go shopping FFS !

Its got nothing to do with people wanting to go shopping. Its about ensuring the Isle of Man can encourage business and investment right now a lot of that will likely be going to Jersey and Guernsey.  Also £100m is a ridiculous number to pluck out of the air the subsidy to maintain services over the pandemic was a fraction of that. 

And if the route was carefully managed with say light regulation then a subsidy might not be required. Pre pandemic there were two Easyjets a day and three Loganair into London City I would contest one Easyjet plus two smaller airline rotations ( early morning/evening) would do the trick! 

[Ringy Rose]

49 minutes ago, asitis said:

You are right maybe 100 million so people can go shopping FFS !

I don't think it's fair to characterise the Liverpool terminal as "people going shopping". But £100m is a lot of money and it seems odd that they can find £100m for a ferry port but can't find a million to support an essential air link.

That said, for central London I have to say Birmingham Airport is about as convenient as Gatwick.