newaccount Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 https://gef.im/news/travel/air-to-reduce-runway-closures-37721/F From Tuesday 1 August only the two morning closures will be retained: 8.30am to 9.05am and 11am to 11.35 So what exactly has changed?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, newaccount said: https://gef.im/news/travel/air-to-reduce-runway-closures-37721/F From Tuesday 1 August only the two morning closures will be retained: 8.30am to 9.05am and 11am to 11.35 So what exactly has changed?? The experienced ATCOs, who were recruited from elsewhere in the Spring, have now been trained to be able to operate unsupervised. Part of the closures was to enable this to happen and it had already been announced that it was hoped the ATC closures could be reduced by August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 18 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: The experienced ATCOs, who were recruited from elsewhere in the Spring, have now been trained to be able to operate unsupervised. Part of the closures was to enable this to happen and it had already been announced that it was hoped the ATC closures could be reduced by August. Are you sure about that? I’m fairly certain it’s due to the existing ATCOs agreeing to change their roster patterns rather than more coming on line. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 5 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: We're no longer even top of the league table with most of the usual suspects back in position above up: Perhaps the situation will change when bad weather returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 15 minutes ago, madmanxpilot said: Are you sure about that? I’m fairly certain it’s due to the existing ATCOs agreeing to change their roster patterns rather than more coming on line. Hasn’t Cobb maybe a press release actually saying this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 1 hour ago, newaccount said: So what exactly has changed?? A new kettle that boils faster...? 🤭 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 49 minutes ago, madmanxpilot said: Are you sure about that? I’m fairly certain it’s due to the existing ATCOs agreeing to change their roster patterns rather than more coming on line. Well the Airport Facebook posting says: A new Air Traffic Controllers’ roster will be in place from Tuesday 1 August which will mean there are only two periods of closure, compared to five currently, and reducing the total closure time by more than two hours. Runway closures were introduced on June 12 to preserve overall aerodrome hours, ensure air traffic controllers’ mandatory rest periods are taken and allow essential staff training to continue during a period of acute staffing pressures. I assume the training referred to incoming experienced ATCOs doing their localised training, given that any true trainees won't be able to operate independently for years. If the incomers are now qualified, that's why there will be new rosters possible. But the existing ATCOs were clearly working with the maximum flexibility legally allowed already, so it can't be that someone has suddenly thought of a new way of doing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Birmingham cancelled tomorrow due to issue with aircraft been announced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Rushen Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Remember all these people who used to kick off if Manx Airlines IOM-LHR was 5 mins late…. Those were the days….. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Major Rushen said: Remember all these people who used to kick off if Manx Airlines IOM-LHR was 5 mins late…. Those were the days….. I miss those days. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: But the existing ATCOs were clearly working with the maximum flexibility legally allowed already, so it can't be that someone has suddenly thought of a new way of doing things. The reduced closures have been made possible solely because of revised rosters that the existing ATCOs have accepted. Why this has only just happened is perhaps a question that needs answering. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newaccount Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 9 minutes ago, madmanxpilot said: The reduced closures have been made possible solely because of revised rosters that the existing ATCOs have accepted. Why this has only just happened is perhaps a question that needs answering. And that's the problem with copy and paste news reports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 23 minutes ago, madmanxpilot said: The reduced closures have been made possible solely because of revised rosters that the existing ATCOs have accepted. Why this has only just happened is perhaps a question that needs answering. That doesn't explain why they needed to introduce the current roster in the first place though. We know from an FoI in June that there only 8 functioning ATCOs (two were not "available for operational duty"), but there were also three "experienced" ATCOs who needed local training (one had only just joined in May). As the Airport needs at least 5 on duty per day and those 8 will also have the responsibility of training the 3 newbies (plus one or more students). The only sensible reason I can think is that they decided to get the newbies up to operational as quickly as possible (using the gaps for that) and the closures have been about short-term pain for medium-term gain. The reference to training in the FB post may support that. The new roster would then be because some of the newbies were now operational or the two missing had become available again. It's possible that new rosters were imposed to bring in more closures for no good reason, but I can't see even the Airport doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: That doesn't explain why they needed to introduce the current roster in the first place though. We know from an FoI in June that there only 8 functioning ATCOs (two were not "available for operational duty"), but there were also three "experienced" ATCOs who needed local training (one had only just joined in May). As the Airport needs at least 5 on duty per day and those 8 will also have the responsibility of training the 3 newbies (plus one or more students). The only sensible reason I can think is that they decided to get the newbies up to operational as quickly as possible (using the gaps for that) and the closures have been about short-term pain for medium-term gain. The reference to training in the FB post may support that. The new roster would then be because some of the newbies were now operational or the two missing had become available again. It's possible that new rosters were imposed to bring in more closures for no good reason, but I can't see even the Airport doing that. The announcement today has not been made because there are any more qualified ATCOs available for duty. None of the ‘newbies’ are validated yet to control without supervision, and will not be for quite some time. As I have already said, it is only because the management proposed a new roster pattern for the existing ATCOs which they have accepted, that today’s announcement has been possible. That is the fact of the matter. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, madmanxpilot said: The announcement today has not been made because there are any more qualified ATCOs available for duty. None of the ‘newbies’ are validated yet to control without supervision, and will not be for quite some time. As I have already said, it is only because the management proposed a new roster pattern for the existing ATCOs which they have accepted, that today’s announcement has been possible. That is the fact of the matter. But the closures they brought in in mid-June must have needed or resulted from a new roster as well. Why did they do that then? There was an ATCO who left in March, but that was three months before and nothing else should have changed unless it was to do with the two 'unavailable' ones. There's another departure due in October, which we know from a recent Written Question which gave the number of changes by year: What it didn't say of course was how many were fully qualified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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