Airport.

[John Wright]

49 minutes ago, Banker said:

The Liverpool is normally full going out in morning & back evening because lots of patient transfers on it.

 

Not really. I spent 8 months going to Liverpool twice a week for chemo. Never more than 10-12. Often 4, 5, 6. And the numbers travelling now are way down. Many post op or post treatment consults are by phone or zoom. And for Oncology, since Clatterbridge took the service at Nobles into its Managment ( jointly with Nobles ) much more treatment is delivered here.

I went variously Monday and Thursday or Tuesday and Friday. Depended on the week. Mondays and Fridays were always busiest.

[Banker]

38 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Not really. I spent 8 months going to Liverpool twice a week for chemo. Never more than 10-12. Often 4, 5, 6. And the numbers travelling now are way down. Many post op or post treatment consults are by phone or zoom. And for Oncology, since Clatterbridge took the service at Nobles into its Managment ( jointly with Nobles ) much more treatment is delivered here.

I went variously Monday and Thursday or Tuesday and Friday. Depended on the week. Mondays and Fridays were always busiest.

Well I beg to differ, I’ve been in last 3 months & travelled for other purpose’s & every time morning Liverpool has been fairly full with 30+ patient transfers, evening one is also similar. Relatives also travel frequently & it’s been so busy in morning with patients that they’ve been late getting to hospital for appointment, ComCab wait until all passengers off with wheelchairs etc, toilet breaks & then allocate transport, sometimes waiting for 45 minutes to get going! I know of a number going to clatter bridge etc & none were offered remote consultations 

[cheesypeas]

5 hours ago, Banker said:

Well I beg to differ, I’ve been in last 3 months & travelled for other purpose’s & every time morning Liverpool has been fairly full with 30+ patient transfers, evening one is also similar. Relatives also travel frequently & it’s been so busy in morning with patients that they’ve been late getting to hospital for appointment, ComCab wait until all passengers off with wheelchairs etc, toilet breaks & then allocate transport, sometimes waiting for 45 minutes to get going! I know of a number going to clatter bridge etc & none were offered remote consultations 

Patient transfer numbers are down at least 30% on what they were.

[John Wright]

5 hours ago, Banker said:

Well I beg to differ, I’ve been in last 3 months & travelled for other purpose’s & every time morning Liverpool has been fairly full with 30+ patient transfers, evening one is also similar. Relatives also travel frequently & it’s been so busy in morning with patients that they’ve been late getting to hospital for appointment, ComCab wait until all passengers off with wheelchairs etc, toilet breaks & then allocate transport, sometimes waiting for 45 minutes to get going! I know of a number going to clatter bridge etc & none were offered remote consultations 

You’re wrong. I administer, with others, the Patient Transfer Feedback FB page. I also input to the charity leaflet published for the benefit of all travelling patients. 4th edition now. And we are responsible for furnishing and upkeep of the two patient transfer rooms at Ronaldsway and John Lennon and negotiating their use. 

Figures travelling are down by at least 30%.

I’ve had 6 phone/zoom Clatterbridge tests in the last 24 months and 2 trips over, that’s one every 3 months. Each after sampling and blood and genetic testing. I know I’m not alone. Until March 2020 it was a trip every 3 months.

I suspect next step will be appointments at Nobles, with specialist nurse physically present but consultant present electronically, for even more.

[IOM]

2 hours ago, cheesypeas said:

Patient transfer numbers are down at least 30% on what they were.

It hardly matters if the patient transfer numbers are 30% down or 50% down does it ? Some patients are still going to need to go across for treatment and likely they will need to be there early morning and back with an evening flight . In my opinion it’s a bit of a pointless debate ! 

[cheesypeas]

1 minute ago, IOM said:

It hardly matters if the patient transfer numbers are 30% down or 50% down does it ? Some patients are still going to need to go across for treatment and likely they will need to be there early morning and back with an evening flight . In my opinion it’s a bit of a pointless debate ! 

Guessing you meant to address Banker. I was simply correcting him. 

[cheesypeas]

The flight from Liverpool to Birmingham this morning was half full. It was pretty much full from Birmingham to IOM. 

[IOM]

2 minutes ago, cheesypeas said:

The flight from Liverpool to Birmingham this morning was half full. It was pretty much full from Birmingham to IOM. 

My point is who cares ? Even if  there are only a few people on it there will need to be a service for patient transfers -end of . Otherwise the implied position is not enough people use it so it’s not needed which cannot be right . 

[John Wright]

12 hours ago, IOM said:

It hardly matters if the patient transfer numbers are 30% down or 50% down does it ? Some patients are still going to need to go across for treatment and likely they will need to be there early morning and back with an evening flight . In my opinion it’s a bit of a pointless debate ! 

The whole of patient transfers and the plane contract are under review and invitation of expression of interest are being sought. It needn’t be a scheduled airline. There are lots of options. 

Most people don’t need to go out at 7am and not return until 8pm.  There have to be better alternatives. For me it wasn’t too bad. The treatment could take minimum of 5 hours and max of 8 if I needed potassium supplementation. Most it’s 15 mins or an hour. Lots of the testing can be done at Nobles the day before, results available electronically.

So it’s not a pointless debate.

[IOM]

18 minutes ago, John Wright said:

The whole of patient transfers and the plane contract are under review and invitation of expression of interest are being sought. It needn’t be a scheduled airline. There are lots of options. 

Most people don’t need to go out at 7am and not return until 8pm.  There have to be better alternatives. For me it wasn’t too bad. The treatment could take minimum of 5 hours and max of 8 if I needed potassium supplementation. Most it’s 15 mins or an hour. Lots of the testing can be done at Nobles the day before, results available electronically.

So it’s not a pointless debate.

Well the patient transfers used to go across to Harweden on a small plane it was stopped as I understand the flight was very uncomfortable for people who were not well so while it does not necessarily need to be a scheduled airline there are likely not as many options as you think . Also you fail to recognise that people go across for many other treatments other than cancer including specialist MRI scans , heart procedures and many others . As far as I am concerned there will always be a need for a patient service early morning and evening. We should be making sure people who are not well are properly looked after and get the service they need . So in my opinion the numbers are irrelevant let’s just make sure they are cared for or do we put cost before peoples needs ? 

[John Wright]

21 minutes ago, IOM said:

Well the patient transfers used to go across to Harweden on a small plane it was stopped as I understand the flight was very uncomfortable for people who were not well so while it does not necessarily need to be a scheduled airline there are likely not as many options as you think . Also you fail to recognise that people go across for many other treatments other than cancer including specialist MRI scans , heart procedures and many others . As far as I am concerned there will always be a need for a patient service early morning and evening. We should be making sure people who are not well are properly looked after and get the service they need . So in my opinion the numbers are irrelevant let’s just make sure they are cared for or do we put cost before peoples needs ? 

It’s you that’s missing the point. I’m aware of the options. I’m aware of the history and background. I’m also aware of the transfer plane that ditched in the Mersey with loss of life.

I used cancer treatment as an example. Lots of other conditions and treatments are in an identical position, ie less need for attendance in UK. I wasn’t failing to recognise anything. But in all fields there will always be need to transfer. It’s a question of how, and when and where to.

No one has suggested that it should be stopped. Just that we should look at whether there are better and more efficient ways of achieving it. There needs to get patients needing tests, diagnosis, treatments, follow up, that can only be delivered at specialist centres in UK there, and back, efficiently, safely, comfortably. Not sure the current system, as delivered by Flybe and now Logan fulfils that.

For instance most people who go across end up waiting around in hospitals or the airport in Liverpool for 8 hours. That’s not good either. It’s one of the reasons various charities got together, negotiated with Peel, and furnished the patients lounge. The one at Ronaldsway is land side, not much good, but will move airside soon. The one in Speke is in a sort of redundant corridor space. Better than nothing, but the ability to get home quicker would be better.

The onboarding and off boarding planes for PRM is poor. The PRM staff at Liverpool are poor. The biggest complaint the Feedback page receives is from patient put into an airport chair, dumped airside, no means of communication to the PRM service provider and needing to relieve themselves. Chairs can’t be self propelled and the official holding area is miles from the loos.

 

[WTF]

maybe an option is to send patients on scheduled commercial flights so they can go and return at  times that may be more suitable assuming that we actually have flights going to liverpool anyway and just refund them or buy their ticket in the first place

[John Wright]

3 minutes ago, WTF said:

maybe an option is to send patients on scheduled commercial flights so they can go and return at  times that may be more suitable assuming that we actually have flights going to liverpool anyway and just refund them or buy their ticket in the first place

After my first month of 2 returns each week I booked my own flights, claimed back. Often used EZY, at £25 or £40 single. It was often cheaper to fly night before, pay for hotel, have treatment and come back, than the amount paid to Flybe.

But lots can’t afford to pay upfront and claim back. And of course I never got refunded the hotel. One week a month I had 5 consecutive days of chemo. PT even suggested I should fly over every day rather than stay over. They even cut up rough about the idea of me going over with car by ferry for the week. Didn’t want to pay the car fare or my first ( Sunday ) night in the hotel 

[IOM]

1 minute ago, John Wright said:

After my first month of 2 returns each week I booked my own flights, claimed back. Often used EZY, at £25 or £40 single. It was often cheaper to fly night before, pay for hotel, have treatment and come back, than the amount paid to Flybe.

But lots can’t afford to pay upfront and claim back. And of course I never got refunded the hotel. One week a month I had 5 consecutive days of chemo. PT even suggested I should fly over every day rather than stay over. They even cut up rough about the idea of me going over with car by ferry for the week. Didn’t want to pay the car fare or my first ( Sunday ) night in the hotel 

My greatest fear is that if we focus on the reduced numbers we will talk ourselves out of the service . It’s fine to say we have EasyJet but on some days there is only one Liverpool flight at random times throughout the week . This is exactly what happens because EasyJet fly 156 or 180 seaters there is a subsequent loss of frequency. Before the days of EasyJet there were up to 6 flights a day to Liverpool . We need to guard against becoming an island that has no frequency of service at least as it is there are options to Liverpool . I just happen to think looking after sick and vulnerable patients should be a priority and maintaining a frequent service is a big part of that. 
 

And you might be happy staying in a hotel the night before but I think a lot of people just want to get back to their own bed when they are not well ! 

[John Wright]

18 minutes ago, IOM said:

My greatest fear is that if we focus on the reduced numbers we will talk ourselves out of the service . It’s fine to say we have EasyJet but on some days there is only one Liverpool flight at random times throughout the week . This is exactly what happens because EasyJet fly 156 or 180 seaters there is a subsequent loss of frequency. Before the days of EasyJet there were up to 6 flights a day to Liverpool . We need to guard against becoming an island that has no frequency of service at least as it is there are options to Liverpool . I just happen to think looking after sick and vulnerable patients should be a priority and maintaining a frequent service is a big part of that. 
 

And you might be happy staying in a hotel the night before but I think a lot of people just want to get back to their own bed when they are not well ! 

The reduced numbers are a reality and the reduced income yield to Logan must be having a knock on effect.

That, no doubt is why it’s being reviewed.

Now is exactly when we need to focus and talk. Otherwise we may lose in its present form.

The pre EZY days saw many fewer PT travellers. The boat was used. 6 a day to/from Liverpool was never sustainable long term. Look at the number of flight providers that collapsed.

EZY wouldn’t be interested.

As for hotel the night before, that’s nothing to do with getting home. It was to make it manageable. Late afternoon flight, good sleep, until 8am, seemed better, to me, than 04.30 alarm and 05.30 taxi and 07.00 flight. It’s a long day. Most days I didn’t get back home until 10pm, others it was closer to midnight