Airport.

[Roger Mexico]

29 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Finally going to go away. 

I just looked at the flights out of the airport to London.

One a day direct.  Sometimes none. Generally at complete useless times.  Completely diabolical. 

It would appear that (unless you're on a motorbike) the biggest hurdle to getting tourists here, will be actually getting tourists here! 

As mentioned above there are two daily easyJet Gatwick flights from Sunday 27 March onwards.  And I can't see any days without flights.

[The Phantom]

6 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

As mentioned above there are two daily easyJet Gatwick flights from Sunday 27 March onwards.  And I can't see any days without flights.

2 from 27th March?  Ok cool, that's slightly better. 

I'm away end of Feb to mid March so only looking at those. 

Gatwick is generally fine for holidays etc. 

I hope BA get the London City flights on again, as for business they are my preference.

 

[ellanvannin2010]

2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

As mentioned above there are two daily easyJet Gatwick flights from Sunday 27 March onwards.  And I can't see any days without flights.

 

2 hours ago, The Phantom said:

2 from 27th March?  Ok cool, that's slightly better. 

I'm away end of Feb to mid March so only looking at those. 

Gatwick is generally fine for holidays etc. 

I hope BA get the London City flights on again, as for business they are my preference.

 

@Roger Mexicois for once  wrong as as is their normal practice Easyjet are only daily to lgw in the middle of the summer on certain days , Tuesday and Wednesday I think.

Presumably there are more lucrative destinations at that time of year.

Hopefully there will be a viable alternative to London once COVID fades somewhat

[IOM]

2 hours ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

 

@Roger Mexicois for once  wrong as as is their normal practice Easyjet are only daily to lgw in the middle of the summer on certain days , Tuesday and Wednesday I think.

Presumably there are more lucrative destinations at that time of year.

Hopefully there will be a viable alternative to London once COVID fades somewhat

I have been making this point for several months the island needs regular connections to London. Compare it to Jersey who will have up to 8 flights a day into London over the summer.  Something is not right please somebody sort it out. We were told the DOE were carrying out a strategic review of air services with particular focus on London and it would report early December but there has been nothing. 

[Roger Mexico]

4 hours ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

@Roger Mexicois for once  wrong as as is their normal practice Easyjet are only daily to lgw in the middle of the summer on certain days , Tuesday and Wednesday I think.

Well I said from 27 March onwards - I didn't say forever😊.

It's one flight only on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Saturdays as far as I can see, from the end of June to start of September.  Though you could see extra flights if they wanted and demand elsewhere was slack.

All airlines are going to be very cautious about what are seen as primarily business routes until they see how and when things get back to 'normal'.    Given that business travel has been in slow decline for two decades and UK 'regional' travel at best stagnant for the same period, no one is going to make any great investment from now on without things being clear.

[IOM]

15 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Well I said from 27 March onwards - I didn't say forever😊.

It's one flight only on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Saturdays as far as I can see, from the end of June to start of September.  Though you could see extra flights if they wanted and demand elsewhere was slack.

All airlines are going to be very cautious about what are seen as primarily business routes until they see how and when things get back to 'normal'.    Given that business travel has been in slow decline for two decades and UK 'regional' travel at best stagnant for the same period, no one is going to make any great investment from now on without things being clear.

I am afraid the facts just don't support this and the idea that there is insufficient demand on the London route is nonsense. Take a look to the passenger numbers in February 2019 ( pre pandemic). These show that 19000 people flew between London City or Gatwick. With the current one flight a day and assuming Easyjet put the A320 on which is 186 seats you only get to a supply of 10416 seats. Clearly there has been some downturn in travel but its not nearly 50% lower. Also to imply as you seem to that London is primarily a business route shows a lack of understanding of who uses it. I use it regularly and the vast majority are people who are visiting family or friends it is worth remembering that there is a large population in the south so a huge market. Finally if airlines were cautious they would not be putting in up to 8 flights a day from London of large jets into Jersey, a market that is not eight times the size of the Isle of Man!

Its time people got real, recognised there is a major problem with flights into London and started to campaign for a better service which includes an early morning off island flight and evening return. Postulating unfounded theories will help nobody! 

 

[Lost Login]

12 minutes ago, IOM said:

I am afraid the facts just don't support this and the idea that there is insufficient demand on the London route is nonsense. Take a look to the passenger numbers in February 2019 ( pre pandemic). These show that 19000 people flew between London City or Gatwick. With the current one flight a day and assuming Easyjet put the A320 on which is 186 seats you only get to a supply of 10416 seats. Clearly there has been some downturn in travel but its not nearly 50% lower. Also to imply as you seem to that London is primarily a business route shows a lack of understanding of who uses it. I use it regularly and the vast majority are people who are visiting family or friends it is worth remembering that there is a large population in the south so a huge market. Finally if airlines were cautious they would not be putting in up to 8 flights a day from London of large jets into Jersey, a market that is not eight times the size of the Isle of Man!

Its time people got real, recognised there is a major problem with flights into London and started to campaign for a better service which includes an early morning off island flight and evening return. Postulating unfounded theories will help nobody! 

As soon as we welcomed Easyjet under the open skies policy this was always going to happen. They would prefer to fly one 100% full plane than two 75% full planes. If that means leaving 50% of those wanting to fly behind then fine as long as the others they do not carry are insufficient for another carrier to come into the market place.  If a competitor does come in then unless they have deep pockets they can easily force them off a route by running two planes for a while with low fares before cutting back once they have forced the competitor out. Potential other operators know this so they are not quick to step forward.

We had and have a choice "cheap" fares with less flights at more inconvenient times or more flight but at higher fares. Many seem to want the former and that is effectively what we have, although Easyjet I would not describe as being that cheap at times 

  

[snowman]

If easyjet didnt fly to Jersey you might have been right. But the problem isnt easyjet or open skies. The problem is smaller population, landing fees, lack of tourism outside of TT, lower quality hotel and hospitality offering, and tatty town centres.

Edited January 15, 2022 by snowman

[IOM]

20 minutes ago, snowman said:

If Easyjet didn't fly to Jersey you might have been right. But the problem isn't Easyjet or open skies. The problem is smaller population, landing fees, lack of tourism outside of TT, lower quality hotel and hospitality offering, and tatty town centres.

Sorry this does not make sense before making sweeping statements you may be better looking at the data. In 2019 there were 275326 passengers flying to London with various options including Gatwick ( Easyjet), Luton ( Easyjet) London City ( BACF) and Heathrow ( Flybe). Even if you take two rotations a day of an Easyjet every day of the year you are only suppling 224640 so there remains a huge shortfall. The market is there for Easyjet and another operator flying into say London City with two rotations a day. I just wish people would take a more positive proactive approach to the problem and encourage politicians and airlines to sort it out. Accepting the unacceptable and shrugging it all off helps nobody. 

[NoTailT]

No doubt we'll see an announcement soon of DOI paying Loganair to fly twice daily to Gatwick.

[bonatti]

With Easyjet offering cheap flights to Gatwick, albeit sporadically, it will always be difficult for another operator to make a London connection profitable without subsidy. 

Will be interesting to see if London passenger figures ever get back to pre pandemic levels 

[Non-Believer]

If the volume of passenger numbers and volume of business for London existed, surely the airline operators would be flattening the airport's £675k fence trying to get in for a slice of the action?

That a hoover-type operator like EZY doesn't see a regular service (currently) as justifiable surely speaks volumes as to the current demand? How do all these passengers currently make their way to London without a current, regular airline service?

[Roger Mexico]

We need to stop these ridiculous comparisons to Jersey and Guernsey for several reasons:

• The balance between air and sea travel is different.  For example 123,000 travelled by sea between Jersey and the UK in 2019.  The figure between Liverpool and Heysham and the Isle of Man was 536,617.  In contrast Jersey Airport saw 1,673,401 passengers and the Isle of Man Airport only 806,716.  Getting to the Isle of Man is easier by sea that it to Jersey and that will mean more people taking the plane to or from the latter.
• Jersey not only has a higher population than the Island, it also gets more tourists.  These tend to fly - especially as being quite small, bringing your own transport is less essential.
• London is the main 'local' UK for the Channel Islands, but that isn't true for the Isle of Man.  In 2019 the four London airports totalled 275,196 passengers to/from the Isle of Man.  The combined figure for Liverpool and Manchester alone was 427,600.  The balance in the Jersey figures is obviously very different with London airports and Southampton predominating.

You can't expect airlines to provide lots of flights where there's not the matching public demand.  

[finlo]

5 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

If the volume of passenger numbers and volume of business for London existed, surely the airline operators would be flattening the airport's £675k fence trying to get in for a slice of the action?

That a hoover-type operator like EZY doesn't see a regular service (currently) as justifiable surely speaks volumes as to the current demand? How do all these passengers currently make their way to London without a current, regular airline service?

 

[IOM]

5 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

We need to stop these ridiculous comparisons to Jersey and Guernsey for several reasons:

• The balance between air and sea travel is different.  For example 123,000 travelled by sea between Jersey and the UK in 2019.  The figure between Liverpool and Heysham and the Isle of Man was 536,617.  In contrast Jersey Airport saw 1,673,401 passengers and the Isle of Man Airport only 806,716.  Getting to the Isle of Man is easier by sea that it to Jersey and that will mean more people taking the plane to or from the latter.
• Jersey not only has a higher population than the Island, it also gets more tourists.  These tend to fly - especially as being quite small, bringing your own transport is less essential.
• London is the main 'local' UK for the Channel Islands, but that isn't true for the Isle of Man.  In 2019 the four London airports totalled 275,196 passengers to/from the Isle of Man.  The combined figure for Liverpool and Manchester alone was 427,600.  The balance in the Jersey figures is obviously very different with London airports and Southampton predominating.

You can't expect airlines to provide lots of flights where there's not the matching public demand.  

You have obviously not read my post . The demand is there why else would the flights be full every day and why else would the supply of 10500 be sufficient when the demand in 2019 was over 19000 . The supply on the Liverpool route is greater now than pre pandemic ask yourself why ! Some of it is down to people getting the train from London to Liverpool because they have no alternative. Absolute madness .