Stu Peters Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 On 3/2/2024 at 6:44 PM, asitis said: and many run by HIAL who are also running here ! No they’re not running here! That’s why I’m always interested in and have respect for Mexico’s posts. He might be ripping into me, but at least he usually presents facts, data or responsible opinions. You’re just a stirring troll. We have some HIAL (or ex-HIAL) people on the shadow board, who understand better than most about running small local/regional airports, but that’s all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 8 hours ago, Stu Peters said: No they’re not running here! That’s why I’m always interested in and have respect for Mexico’s posts. He might be ripping into me, but at least he usually presents facts, data or responsible opinions. You’re just a stirring troll. We have some HIAL (or ex-HIAL) people on the shadow board, who understand better than most about running small local/regional airports, but that’s all. Strange, I thought your director was ex HIAL and was seriously implicated in the HIALremote control tower/ATC debacle. As you say, who better… 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 8 hours ago, Stu Peters said: No they’re not running here! That’s why I’m always interested in and have respect for Mexico’s posts. He might be ripping into me, but at least he usually presents facts, data or responsible opinions. Does that mean that you are frequenting Roger M's MF posts to get your facts and data, Stu....? 🤔 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, John Wright said: Strange, I thought your director was ex HIAL and was seriously implicated in the HIALremote control tower/ATC debacle. As you say, who better… To be fair to Cobb, the remote control fiasco wasn't really his fault. He was brought in last minute to try to implement an already (obviously) impractical plan and then left there as quickly as possible when it became clear you couldn't. He was basically the man sweeping up after the elephants when the circus has passed through. So a good fit for Ronaldsway. The whole shadow board stuff is another example of the way Cannan and co will be anything other than accept responsibility, but you can't blame Cobb for wanting to fill it with friendly faces who he would hope wouldn't interfere too much. He may not have had a direct say in who was chosen, but a lot of it will be about encouraging people to apply. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Remote ATC will happen eventually and we/they need to be ready for when it will be the only option going into the future. If only because of the lack of people coming forward to train. That and the expense of training ATCs. As far as corporatisation is concerned, if it happens the operator will be knocking on IOMG doors within 5 years asking for a hand-out because they can't make it pay. There simply isn't the passenger traffic and the resultant revenue to sustain the operation. Some people in DOI with responsibility for the airport, including the so-called shadow board, need to get their heads around the fact that it's a numbers game, nothing else. It's all down to critical mass. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 4 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: As far as corporatisation is concerned, if it happens the operator will be knocking on IOMG doors within 5 years asking for a hand-out because they can't make it pay. There simply isn't the passenger traffic and the resultant revenue to sustain the operation. Some people in DOI with responsibility for the airport, including the so-called shadow board, need to get their heads around the fact that it's a numbers game, nothing else. It's all down to critical mass. And this is precisely why our government are involved in so many diverse areas which end up providing KMA service, are overstaffed, overfunded and amateurishly operated. If we want decent services and facilities, we need to accept that we need to have a lot more people living here and visiting to make the place spin, the arbitrary figure of an extra 15k is probably not enough. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional and will watch from the sidelines as the island slips further and further into the quicksand. A proper all encompassing plan to raise the population was critical over forty years ago, now may be too late? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 9 hours ago, Stu Peters said: No they’re not running here! That’s why I’m always interested in and have respect for Mexico’s posts. He might be ripping into me, but at least he usually presents facts, data or responsible opinions. You’re just a stirring troll. We have some HIAL (or ex-HIAL) people on the shadow board, who understand better than most about running small local/regional airports, but that’s all. Stu. Have the new generation security scanners been installed yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 16 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: Remote ATC will happen eventually and we/they need to be ready for when it will be the only option going into the future. If only because of the lack of people coming forward to train. That and the expense of training ATCs. There's certainly not a lack of people coming forward to train - we saw that when they advertised trainee positions here. But as usual British businesses think training is what other people do and they can just poach from other people by offering a few quid more. And then blame everyone except themselves for the shortages. This has now been made even worse by Brexit as that has restricted the people they can poach. It is always at this point that some one comes along with some magic technological solution to solve everyone's problems. But remote ATC still requires ATCOs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 (edited) 9 hours ago, Stu Peters said: No they’re not running here! That’s why I’m always interested in and have respect for Mexico’s posts. He might be ripping into me, but at least he usually presents facts, data or responsible opinions. You’re just a stirring troll. We have some HIAL (or ex-HIAL) people on the shadow board, who understand better than most about running small local/regional airports, but that’s all. Pity you changed your mind after all the meetings you had with locals, outlining what you were going to push for ! maybe not as much as a troll as you think I am !!! Edited March 6 by asitis 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 minute ago, Roger Mexico said: There's certainly not a lack of people coming forward to train - we saw that when they advertised trainee positions here. But as usual British businesses think training is what other people do and they can just poach from other people by offering a few quid more. And then blame everyone except themselves for the shortages. This has now been made even worse by Brexit as that has restricted the people they can poach. It is always at this point that some one comes along with some magic technological solution to solve everyone's problems. But remote ATC still requires ATCOs. Anecdotally I think the failure rate is high if the ATCO trainee for whatever reason finds that it doesn't suit them or they don't make the grade. There are as many leaving the job as the are applicants for training, if you believe what some industry papers/journals say. That's the main reason for the global shortage. Of course a remote ATC needs qualified staff, why wouldn't it? The only difference is that airports with low numbers of movements like IOM will struggle to maintain their own facility due to the cost. Remote ATCs work around the world. Norway has 11 remote airports controlled from one tower. It will happen for IOM out of necessity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, Max Power said: And this is precisely why our government are involved in so many diverse areas which end up providing KMA service, are overstaffed, overfunded and amateurishly operated. If we want decent services and facilities, we need to accept that we need to have a lot more people living here and visiting to make the place spin, the arbitrary figure of an extra 15k is probably not enough. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional and will watch from the sidelines as the island slips further and further into the quicksand. A proper all encompassing plan to raise the population was critical over forty years ago, now may be too late? That's all I think most people want. We don't need, nor I suspect is there any serious demand for, a pre or post check-in "shopping experience" like the big airports. The numbers just won't warrant that type of operation being sustainable. Why can't we have an airport that just works as it should? On this occasion there's no necessity to think outside the box as it's all very basic stuff. Yes, it could do with a lick of paint and the upstairs departure lounge extending possibly but there's no need for anything more at the moment. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellanvannin2010 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said: Stu. Have the new generation security scanners been installed yet? Be much better to spend the money on improving the runway lighting so the planes can land more reliably in poor weather We have survived for 20 odd years with the liquid restrictions, a few more years will make no real difference. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newaccount Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said: Stu. Have the new generation security scanners been installed yet? No they haven't. Airports under 1m have an exemption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 34 minutes ago, newaccount said: No they haven't. Airports under 1m have an exemption. Ha! You can bet they will be forced to install and implement them within the next couple of years, bit like the RESA debacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said: Stu. Have the new generation security scanners been installed yet? Not yet. Whilst better and more efficient they are expensive and will require building alterations, and aren’t mandatory just yet I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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