Airport.

[IOM]

11 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

The markets need to be different. The only route that Gov should be considering providing any support to is London City. Anything else and they're fuelling private sector competition with Gov subsidies.

Ultimately Loganair were getting a pretty penny to do Manchester and Liverpool. Easyjet didn't get a look in and they literally told Jez and Annie that they're going to obliterate the route if they don't stop playing games. They didn't, the games continue and Easyjet continue to grow at their own commercial risk with zero Gov support.

Why should the Manx Public pay more to fly on a subsidised airline? Its bonkers.

Are you referring to EasyJet Gatwick ? Right now there is no way they will pull that route it’s near enough 100% full and fares can be expensive . I reckon it’s currently there most profitable routing ! 
 

And not everyone just focuses on price some of us want an airline that provides a better frequency of service at the same sensible time each day or do you not want to cater for these people as long as you get your cheap fare ? 

[NoTailT]

Just now, IOM said:

Are you referring to EasyJet Gatwick ? Right now there is no way they will pull that route it’s near enough 100% full and fares can be expensive . I reckon it’s currently there most profitable routing ! 
 

And not everyone just focuses on price some of us want an airline that provides a better frequency of service at the same sensible time each day or do you not want to cater for these people as long as you get your cheap fare ? 

What I'm saying is that it's not for IOM Gov to subsidise it.

It's not easyJets fault their planes are bigger.

But if the Gov subsidise someone else to fly to Gatters, thats ridiculous.

If Loganair stop being a bunch of pussies needing subsidies everywhere they fly in the UK and took some commercial risk of their own, then so be it. Good luck to them.

[IOM]

4 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

What I'm saying is that it's not for IOM Gov to subsidise it.

It's not easyJets fault their planes are bigger.

But if the Gov subsidise someone else to fly to Gatters, thats ridiculous.

If Loganair stop being a bunch of pussies needing subsidies everywhere they fly in the UK and took some commercial risk of their own, then so be it. Good luck to them.

I am not referring to London Gatwick I am making a case for another London airport most likely London City . If you check what I said I am not advocating subsidy but incentives for airlines who are based on island offer local jobs and put something back into the community. 

[NoTailT]

7 minutes ago, IOM said:

I am not referring to London Gatwick I am making a case for another London airport most likely London City . If you check what I said I am not advocating subsidy but incentives for airlines who are based on island offer local jobs and put something back into the community. 

If I’m not mistaken - I could be - there was a commercial agreement with easyJet that basically says they pay £3.50 per departing passenger. This covers all landing fees etc, it’s a capacity discount for so many seats. So even if they launch a new route for them e.g. Manchester, historical Reynolds decisions have already provided one up man ship to easyJet.

If an airline wants to base here and create local jobs, they can access DED support like any other business I’d imagine.

Maybe Loganair commercial team are just weak negotiatiors.

Ultimately I agree that we need to keep supporting Gatwick as-is and the frequency you need is better suited to City.  That’s London though. I’d still choose to fly easyJet to Manchester and have done several times already.

Edited February 17, 2022 by NoTailT

[IOM]

2 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

If I’m not mistaken - I could be - there was a commercial agreement with easyJet that basically says they pay £3.50 per departing passenger. This covers all landing fees etc, it’s a capacity discount for so many seats. So even if they launch a new route for them e.g. Manchester, historical Reynolds decisions have already provided one up man ship to easyJet.

If an airline wants to base here and create local jobs, they can access DED support like any other business I’d imagine.

Maybe Loganair commercial team are just weak negotiatiors.

Ultimately I agree that we need to keep supporting Gatwick as-is and the frequency you need is better suited to City.  That’s London though. I’d still choose to fly easyJet to Manchester and have done several times already.

I think we agree . To leave the island so poorly connected to London is outrageous on so many levels . 

[snowman]

Flybe route launch is soon. Wait and see

[forestboy]

36 minutes ago, snowman said:

Flybe route launch is soon. Wait and see

Hope they also do Birmingham again.  Always a good load number previously. 

[ellanvannin2010]

1 hour ago, NoTailT said:

If I’m not mistaken - I could be - there was a commercial agreement with easyJet that basically says they pay £3.50 per departing passenger. This covers all landing fees etc, it’s a capacity discount for so many seats. So even if they launch a new route for them e.g. Manchester, historical Reynolds decisions have already provided one up man ship to easyJet.

If an airline wants to base here and create local jobs, they can access DED support like any other business I’d imagine.

Maybe Loganair commercial team are just weak negotiatiors.

Ultimately I agree that we need to keep supporting Gatwick as-is and the frequency you need is better suited to City.  That’s London though. I’d still choose to fly easyJet to Manchester and have done several times already.

Perhaps BACityflyer could be persuaded to nightstop here and do an early morning to LCY and evening back to IOM, so just one rotation .

From a  general quick look , the early EZY flight to LGW and late flight back ( when they bother to operate two flights) are the most expensive so appear to  be the ones there is more demand for.

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by ellanvannin2010

[NoTailT]

18 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

Perhaps BACityflyer could be persuaded to nightstop here and do an early morning to LCY and evening back to IOM, so just one rotation .

From a  general quick look , the early EZY flight to LGW and late flight back ( when they bother to operate two flights) are the most expensive so appear to  be the ones there is more demand for.

 

Pre COVID that’s exactly what was meant to happen when BA were kicking off about the poor issue with the Loganair ATR42.

Overnight morning and evening with City based aircraft filling in additional rotations too.

 

[0bserver]

Flybe have already told DOI they're not interested after negotiations fell through. DOI ballsed another thing up. 

The typical government approach of half assing things won't solve the connectivity issues. 

Either go in balls deep with a fully fledged PSO deal or don't bother. The light touch stuff hasn't work before covid and won't work post covid  

[IOM]

23 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

Pre COVID that’s exactly what was meant to happen when BA were kicking off about the poor issue with the Loganair ATR42.

Overnight morning and evening with City based aircraft filling in additional rotations too.

 

Generally a good outcome if it could be reached and an awful lot better than the current situation . Like I said those that are not bothered by time of day and just want a cheap ticket get what they need with Easyjet Gatwick those that require something more regular and fixed but recognise the ticket will cost more are catered for too out of London City. I suspect supply and demand will broadly balance as well.

Its worth remembering London is not only business there are a lot of family and friends who live in London the South east and across to Bristol etc. Its a huge market and it is currently very badly served. 

[NoTailT]

13 minutes ago, IOM said:

Generally a good outcome if it could be reached and an awful lot better than the current situation . Like I said those that are not bothered by time of day and just want a cheap ticket get what they need with Easyjet Gatwick those that require something more regular and fixed but recognise the ticket will cost more are catered for too out of London City. I suspect supply and demand will broadly balance as well.

Its worth remembering London is not only business there are a lot of family and friends who live in London the South east and across to Bristol etc. Its a huge market and it is currently very badly served. 

I get that. I only use Gatwick personally for onward travel.

If I'm going to London, I want City. Be it business or leisure.

[Ringy Rose]

On 2/17/2022 at 9:31 AM, NoTailT said:

I detest paying £105 to Loganair when on the same day - just a few hours apart - I could pay easyJet £30 for the same journey. This happens all too regularly.

I've not seen Loganair at that price, usually on the Manchester they're about the £80 mark. EasyJet are normally about £30-£40, but they charge £15* for a normal cabin bag and £25 for a hold bag. Both of those are included in the Loganair fare.

(*£25 if you don't realise the EasyJet standard cabin bag is the size of a thimble, and get stung by the Menzies gate staff waving their card machine with glee).

If you're taking any sort of luggage, there is bugger all difference in fares. But not everyone wants to take luggage. 

Loganair probably need to switch to the same pricing model as EasyJet tbh. I hate the low cost pricing model, but if you can't beat it join it.

[Ringy Rose]

On 2/17/2022 at 8:17 AM, NoTailT said:

Easyjet the other day had 139 inbound from Manchester. Loganair at similar time, 26 inbound.

I hope easyjet keep this up.

They will...until Loganair pull out. Then, as we saw with Belfast, it'll be down to a Friday/Sunday rotation because that's where the money is.

[NoTailT]

Loganair's pricing model probably doesn't help them. I just looked at a dummy booking for two cabin bags and a 15KG suitcase on easyJet versus a standard Loganair fair. easyJet came in £2 return cheaper once you added it all on.

But if you just need two carry on items, it's £50 cheaper. Just need one carry on bag? £100 cheaper. That's what Loganair are up against.

They can't justify charging more for the sake of a tunnocks caramel and a tippy cup of water from the 90s Britannia days. Actually on some of my recent Loganair Liverpool and Manchester flights they've just said it's too short for them to dish out the tunnocks.

Loganair need to rethink their pricing model, you're right. It's make the world of difference. Personally, I very rarely take a check in bag, so why should I pay for it?