Airport.

[Dirty Buggane]

We could have a bridge built 3/5th's of the way to Scotland for that, and line it with windmills for energy, easy access for maintenance and replacement and not on our sky line. 

[Jarndyce]

5 minutes ago, Dirty Buggane said:

I know its all a figment of my imagination but I've never been one to let truth get in the way of a good rumour

Indeed…

[Dirty Buggane]

Just now, Jarndyce said:

Indeed…

And

[A fool and his money.....]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

What attitude is that? 

How would you propose to offer a ATC course on Island for less than 1 person per year and then force them to stay employed on island?

 

The attitude that it's not worth training people in case they leave.

The first thing I'd do is employ them as a trainee ATC, they'd learn partly on the job and partly through formal training via this new concept (it's only been round about 50 years) called distance learning.

With a practical profession like ATC there may even be the need to send them across from time to time to do some stuff, but for airport management and the likes I would have thought the whole thing could be done on the job/ online. 

To me it just stands to reason that if you spend money training people who are already settled on the island, with an established network of friends and family, they are much more likely to stick around than throwing (often much larger) sums of money at people who've never considered living here to relocate.

As to your question of how you force people to stay here - you don't, nor should you. Train and treat them well, offer them career progression and hope for the best. The odds of retaining your investment are considerably higher than the current relocation model.

[Two-lane]

According to the Internet (so it must be true), Flight Management Systems are on-board the aircraft.

There may be Airport Management Systems, but for an airport the size of Ronaldsway a Sinclair Spectrum should be sufficient.

Was he referring to ILS improvements, perhaps?

[Or perhaps in the same vein as £250,000 for a new car park barrier]

[Derek Flint]

6 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

The attitude that it's not worth training people in case they leave.

The first thing I'd do is employ them as a trainee ATC, they'd learn partly on the job and partly through formal training via this new concept (it's only been round about 50 years) called distance learning.

With a practical profession like ATC there may even be the need to send them across from time to time to do some stuff, but for airport management and the likes I would have thought the whole thing could be done on the job/ online. 

To me it just stands to reason that if you spend money training people who are already settled on the island, with an established network of friends and family, they are much more likely to stick around than throwing (often much larger) sums of money at people who've never considered living here to relocate.

As to your question of how you force people to stay here - you don't, nor should you. Train and treat them well, offer them career progression and hope for the best. The odds of retaining your investment are considerably higher than the current relocation model.

This has been done. A friend of my young fella was locally selected, recruited and trained

[Happier diner]

7 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

The attitude that it's not worth training people in case they leave.

The first thing I'd do is employ them as a trainee ATC, they'd learn partly on the job and partly through formal training via this new concept (it's only been round about 50 years) called distance learning.

With a practical profession like ATC there may even be the need to send them across from time to time to do some stuff, but for airport management and the likes I would have thought the whole thing could be done on the job/ online. 

To me it just stands to reason that if you spend money training people who are already settled on the island, with an established network of friends and family, they are much more likely to stick around than throwing (often much larger) sums of money at people who've never considered living here to relocate.

As to your question of how you force people to stay here - you don't, nor should you. Train and treat them well, offer them career progression and hope for the best. The odds of retaining your investment are considerably higher than the current relocation model.

If you read up the qualifications for ATC are very clear. 

You either need an engineering degree in advance and then do the NATs training at Farnham in Hampshire for 1 year or do the NATs degree at Farnham.

Once qualified you can work alongside qualified ATCs. No option to study or train on Island. 

[A fool and his money.....]

1 hour ago, Derek Flint said:

This has been done. A friend of my young fella was locally selected, recruited and trained

Good. As what?

[A fool and his money.....]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

If you read up the qualifications for ATC are very clear. 

You either need an engineering degree in advance and then do the NATs training at Farnham in Hampshire for 1 year or do the NATs degree at Farnham.

Once qualified you can work alongside qualified ATCs. No option to study or train on Island. 

So recruit someone with an engineering degree then. They do them at the college don't they? And then send them to Farnham for a year IF that's the only option.

I can't for the life of me think why you'd need an engineering degree to control air traffic, but there you go.

So that's one position with an easily surmountable problem, others, like management would be much more straightforward. In fact I'd go as far as to say most government positions are ones people could easily be trained into. 

It really doesn't make sense to keep throwing money at importing people. If someone wants to come and work here that's great, all government positions are advertised and they're welcome to apply. I just don't think we should be throwing money at trying to encourage them while training opportunities are so limited (and poorly funded).

[Gladys]

Yes, we should be throwing money at training locals.  Seriously, proper graduate schemes leading to professional qualifications,  apprenticeships and trade training. 

Has the Gas Safe training been reinstated?  We surely have to be preparing for large scale decommissioning of domestic gas systems, or gearing up to take advantage of Crogga?  Or are we going to be ill-prepared for either scenario? 

[A fool and his money.....]

10 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Yes, we should be throwing money at training locals.  Seriously, proper graduate schemes leading to professional qualifications,  apprenticeships and trade training. 

Exactly. Graduate training schemes may even persuade some of our graduates to come back!

I've said it all along, if you want to increase the population (and I'm not entirely convinced it's the right thing to do) the concentrate on making the island somewhere where people will want to live, somewhere the locals will sell for you, somewhere you don't need to throw thousands at people to move to.

You don't do this by surpressing training opportunities in favour of throwing money at otherwise reluctant people to move here.

[NoTail]

Stu... a Manx problem waiting for a Manx solution?

[Gladys]

I wonder if anyone in DESC has actually assessed the future needs of the island and come up with a strategy (I know) to tailor education to meet those needs? 

Graduate training schemes have the appearance of being good things to have,  but in many cases, I suspect they are just a way of getting good quality, intelligent candidates on the cheap. Do any schemes actually have a desired outcome?

The private sector professions have a long history of indentures and articles to gain professional qualifications after good quality experience.  Same for trades, learn the theory then test it out in real life until you are proven to be competent. 

[madmanxpilot]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

If you read up the qualifications for ATC are very clear. 

You either need an engineering degree in advance and then do the NATs training at Farnham in Hampshire for 1 year or do the NATs degree at Farnham.

Once qualified you can work alongside qualified ATCs. No option to study or train on Island. 

No degree required to become an ATCO, and the course you undertake isn’t a degree course as far as I know.

https://www.nats.aero/careers/operations/trainee-air-traffic-controllers/

5 GCSEs at grade C or above is all that’s needed.

[A fool and his money.....]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

If you read up the qualifications for ATC are very clear. 

Obviously not that clear then 😀