Derek Flint Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 But if you ran approach remotely from a better staffing Base, then would you not just need to staff the tower, and have the resilience for quite late opening? I suspect there's been a push to run the airport on a commercial shoestring, which doesn't work in a low traffic jurisdiction where it's essentially a lifeline first. It's one of those areas of Manx life where there's going to be a need to spend more than you'll ever bring in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 18 hours ago, Nellie said: UTC= what we used to call Greenwich Mean Time. It's not an aviation term, specifically, and seems to have largely displaced poor old GMT. NOTAM = Notice to Airmen Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 how come it's not been upgraded to men and women? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerremonside Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 7 minutes ago, doc.fixit said: how come it's not been upgraded to men and women? It has in America, where it's Notices to Air Missions.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerremonside Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Derek Flint said: But if you ran approach remotely from a better staffing Base, then would you not just need to staff the tower, and have the resilience for quite late opening? I suspect there's been a push to run the airport on a commercial shoestring, which doesn't work in a low traffic jurisdiction where it's essentially a lifeline first. It's one of those areas of Manx life where there's going to be a need to spend more than you'll ever bring in Possibly. You'd have extra with not needing to man the Approach/Radar function... But you'd also have a big bill from whoever you outsourced to, a big training impact to train the outsourcee's ATCOS in local procedures, a less happy workforce who only do a less fulfilling and interesting job here with it being Tower only (and therefore likely to leave to find better work), and a workforce on the outsourced centre with no local knowledge. I suspect your comment comes from an imagining that a big base of ATCOs means any one of them could just walk in and do it. Not the case sadly, they'd need exactly the same local validation and recurrency process as those who currently carry out Approach and Radar here. Edited August 27 by gerremonside speling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 4 hours ago, LooseChange said: There's simply no way that EGNS ATC need 18 qualified Air Traffic Controllers. My back of the fag packet maths suggests 12 controllers is adequate. They may need 18 members of staff, but that is not the same thing. In both positions (Tower and Radar) there is a Air Traffic Controller (ATCO) and an Air Traffic Services Assistant (ATSA). Some of the ATSAs will be trainee controllers who have not yet started their training but some of them will be ATSAs and only ATSAs. An ATSA is not a qualified ATCO and the job requires nothing more than on the job training. The roster that previously worked many many years (and the official airport opening hours have not changed) was 6 days on, 3 days off. 3 controllers working the AM shift (05:45 to 13:15) and 3 working the PM shift (13:15 to 20:45) and 3 on their days off. That is 9 controllers actually needed per day. Add another 3 to allow for annual leave and you get 12. So, if per the minister, we need 18 ATCOS and we're close, why the problems when 12 is adequate? It has to be that the Minister has misunderstood and has failed to understand that not all people working in the control tower are Air Traffic Controllers. So it rather begs the question, how many ATCOs are there, and how many ATSAs are there? I suspect there are actually a similar number of ATSAs to ATCOs and since ATSAs are not ATCOs, we have problems keeping the airfield open. I really do wish that our Politicians (both the Minister for the Department and those asking the questions) would take just a little time to properly understand what it is they're talking about. Then proper answers could be asked and proper answers could be given instead of the word salad that Hansard shows. you are forgetting the rostered off sick days along with genuine sick days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_manx Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 5 hours ago, Nellie said: They do that when they are going to do a fully automated landing. They expalin that to the passenegers that is the reason, but I guess they don't have to do that! This was on take off when we were leaving the IOM.. I was under the impression that visibility was a bigger issue at landing than on takeoff ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nellie Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 A bit of good news. Reynolds and Spake joint consultancy was a rip-roaring success. No clients, no revenues and now wound-up/stuck-off. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/14018199 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 51 minutes ago, mad_manx said: This was on take off when we were leaving the IOM.. I was under the impression that visibility was a bigger issue at landing than on takeoff ?? I’ve never heard of it being done for take off either. There have been reports over the years of passenger’s electrical devices interfering with navigation equipment and causing oscillations in the flight path. Whilst not really a problem for take off, which is a visual procedure, it has the potential to be so for Cat 2/3 approaches where the slightest deviation off profile could have significant consequences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 27 minutes ago, Nellie said: A bit of good news. Reynolds and Spake joint consultancy was a rip-roaring success. No clients, no revenues and now wound-up/stuck-off. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/14018199 Good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 10 hours ago, WTF said: there will have been fuel here but they will have needed to get wheels up before the place shut so won't have had the time to refuel here meaning they had to stop off at a proper airport on route According to a few facebook posts, the captain said the fuel truck guy had gone home so no fuel available, plane landed eventually in Gatwick at 0.40 am so no trains etc. lots of whining about government etc but nothing about easyJet being 2 hours late and airport staying open to accommodate passengers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 2 minutes ago, Banker said: According to a few facebook posts, the captain said the fuel truck guy had gone home so no fuel available, plane landed eventually in Gatwick at 0.40 am so no trains etc. lots of whining about government etc but nothing about easyJet being 2 hours late and airport staying open to accommodate passengers. The published hours for fuel availability is from 0630 until 2030. If fuel is required outside of those hours, then the airline should request it. It’s not the fueler’s fault at all. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Just now, madmanxpilot said: The published hours for fuel availability is from 0630 until 2030. If fuel is required outside of those hours, then the airline should request it. It’s not the fueler’s fault at all. Totally agree but Facebook warriors are blaming government, airport, ATC breaks etc as easyJet told them its airport failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Just now, Banker said: Totally agree but Facebook warriors are blaming government, airport, ATC breaks etc as easyJet told them its airport failure. I think the fact that ATC has to close down to allow for breaks could be classed as an airport failure. If they (IOMA/IOMG) hadn’t suspended recruitment a few years ago, and did more to retain staff rather than drive them away, then I’m not so sure we’d be the requirement for airport closures through the day at all. Of course the airline and the operating captains need to pay more attention to the published NOTAMs which detail when the closures are too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 9 minutes ago, Banker said: …easyJet told them its airport failure. Like every other airline I’ve experienced, when they consider it expedient to do so, EasyJet are economical with the truth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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