Airport.

[lfc84]

1 hour ago, madmanxpilot said:

The main runway at Ronaldsway is 46 metres wide, Tthat is 1 metre wider than both runways at Manchester.  
 

I’m not sure what plans you are looking at, but they seem to be a bit out of date. The runway extensions at Ronaldsway were widened (unnecessarily) from 30 metres to 46 metres a couple of years ago.

length not girth

[Hairy Poppins]

1 hour ago, Astiast1ve said:

The expansion plan for Ronaldsway sounds interesting, especially with the widening of the runways. If the construction is completed by November, it could potentially mean more airlines and flights to choose from, which might open up new opportunities for travelers, including those looking for better deals or specific routes.

Yeah I hear Emirates and Turkish Airlines can't wait to start.

[LooseChange]

In previous years, there was a large number of experienced ( ATCOs 20 years + at EGNS) who had families and stable lives on the Isle of Man.

This stable base of experienced controllers meant that recruitment was focused on training from scratch local candidates with no ATC experience to eventually replace those who were due to retire.  People who had grown up on the Isle of Man, people who wanted to stay.  There was, historically, minimal resignations. 

Thanks to  epic mismanagement, we now find ourselves in the position of being short of controllers and therefore, having to fill the gaps with, mainly, whoever is available to fill them in the shortest possible time frame.  

In other words, ATCOs from the UK with no ties to the Isle of Man. 

I do not mean to denigrate "come overs", far from it but the reality is moving to the Isle of Man is hard enough when you have a great job where you feel valued.  Yes some locally sourced ATCOs have resigned also, but the majority of the controllers who have stayed, are the ATCOs who were trained from scratch at EGNS 

So yes, the question is, why is EGNS ATC a crap place to work and what can be done to fix it?  Now where's that big grey pachyderm....

[LooseChange]

4 hours ago, madmanxpilot said:

It’s not just controller woes.

It seems decisions are often made without consideration or understanding of  the subsequent consequences. The unnecessary closure of runway 21 for an extended period led to the inability to land in strong southerly winds and the unwarranted withdrawal of the DME during the recent ILS replacement meant the landing minima was much higher than it needed to be. Both led to multiple cancellations and delays which were totally avoidable.

Also, ask the local general aviation pilots with aircraft based at Ronaldsway how decisions that have been made by the HoATS have affected their ability to use their aircraft at night and in low cloud/ visibility conditions.

 

I suspect we found ourselves in our current position partly because ATC were not backward in coming forward with criticisms of such decisions. 

And yet, would you believe, Airport Management, rather than listening to the well founded concerns of experienced ATCOs, took umbrage at being "criticised" by some of the most highly trained and skilled aviation professionals at EGNS, and figured they knew better.

Edited August 29 by LooseChange
Typos

[Happier diner]

13 minutes ago, lfc84 said:

length not girth

Neither. Its how you use it (apparently)

[Amadeus]

4 minutes ago, LooseChange said:

I suspect we found ourselves in our current position partly because ATC were not backward in coming forward with criticisms of such decisions. 

And yet, would you believe, Airport Management, rather than listening to the well founded concerns of experienced ATCOs, took umbrage at being "criticised" by some of the most highly trained and skilled aviation professionals at EGNS, and figured they knew better.

Incompetence and arrogance usually know better. That’s how they stay that way. 

[lcd]

1 hour ago, LooseChange said:

I suspect we found ourselves in our current position partly because ATC were not backward in coming forward with criticisms of such decisions. 

And yet, would you believe, Airport Management, rather than listening to the well founded concerns of experienced ATCOs, took umbrage at being "criticised" by some of the most highly trained and skilled aviation professionals at EGNS, and figured they knew better.

I was told, some time back now admittedly, that there were two qualified ATC people being stopped from working. Does anyone know if that was (or still is) true? Was this the same thing? 

[asitis]

14 hours ago, lcd said:

I was told, some time back now admittedly, that there were two qualified ATC people being stopped from working. Does anyone know if that was (or still is) true? Was this the same thing? 

I know there was some kerfuffle or other going on, whether that is still the case I don't know. There are still a number of controllers with easily changeable links to the island, and I believe only a very few who are set in concrete here. If this continues to go belly up in respect of staff retention we'll really be in the shit !

Proabably a good time to exit if you are the director.

[hoopsaa]

You're all over-thinking the ATC thing.

When the MGP was short of Marshal's, they just did a general shout out, people volunteered, it was all good.

So, we've got a shortage of ATC's on a particular day, give the call, there'll be no shortage of blokes who've played 'plane tracker (for men)', who've virtually landed Boeing 747's on the fucking ARCTIC CIRCLE, it'll be fine.

[Hairy Poppins]

2 minutes ago, hoopsaa said:

You're all over-thinking the ATC thing.

When the MGP was short of Marshal's, they just did a general shout out, people volunteered, it was all good.

So, we've got a shortage of ATC's on a particular day, give the call, there'll be no shortage of blokes who've played 'plane tracker (for men)', who've virtually landed Boeing 747's on the fucking ARCTIC CIRCLE, it'll be fine.

This sounds like a great idea. I fully support it.

[thommo2010]

21 minutes ago, hoopsaa said:

You're all over-thinking the ATC thing.

When the MGP was short of Marshal's, they just did a general shout out, people volunteered, it was all good.

So, we've got a shortage of ATC's on a particular day, give the call, there'll be no shortage of blokes who've played 'plane tracker (for men)', who've virtually landed Boeing 747's on the fucking ARCTIC CIRCLE, it'll be fine.

 

22 minutes ago, hoopsaa said:

You're all over-thinking the ATC thing.

When the MGP was short of Marshal's, they just did a general shout out, people volunteered, it was all good.

So, we've got a shortage of ATC's on a particular day, give the call, there'll be no shortage of blokes who've played 'plane tracker (for men)', who've virtually landed Boeing 747's on the fucking ARCTIC CIRCLE, it'll be fine.

 

[Andy Onchan]

On 8/29/2024 at 1:43 PM, LooseChange said:

In previous years, there was a large number of experienced ( ATCOs 20 years + at EGNS) who had families and stable lives on the Isle of Man.

This stable base of experienced controllers meant that recruitment was focused on training from scratch local candidates with no ATC experience to eventually replace those who were due to retire.  People who had grown up on the Isle of Man, people who wanted to stay.  There was, historically, minimal resignations. 

Thanks to  epic mismanagement, we now find ourselves in the position of being short of controllers and therefore, having to fill the gaps with, mainly, whoever is available to fill them in the shortest possible time frame.  

In other words, ATCOs from the UK with no ties to the Isle of Man. 

I do not mean to denigrate "come overs", far from it but the reality is moving to the Isle of Man is hard enough when you have a great job where you feel valued.  Yes some locally sourced ATCOs have resigned also, but the majority of the controllers who have stayed, are the ATCOs who were trained from scratch at EGNS 

So yes, the question is, why is EGNS ATC a crap place to work and what can be done to fix it?  Now where's that big grey pachyderm....

There was a time when IOM had a vibrant and forward looking aviation industry with a substantial and tangible local presence 22 years ago: https://www.airwaysmag.com/new-post/manx-airlines-ceases-operations

I can't help thinking that "our own airline" made a difference (I know it wasn't really our own, but you get the idea), as everyone was pulling/driving/flying in tandem for, what seemed at the time, for the benefit of the Island. And ATC was part of that.

Rose tinted glasses and nostalgia aside, at least we had aviation professionals who cared and got the job done.

[Vaaish]

2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

I can't help thinking that "our own airline" made a difference.

Well, it made a difference to Manx Airlines bottom line certainly, with fares to Heathrow about £300 back in the late 90s.

[Andy Onchan]

17 hours ago, Vaaish said:

Well, it made a difference to Manx Airlines bottom line certainly, with fares to Heathrow about £300 back in the late 90s.

Indeed, which is one of the reasons why BA purchased it.  And despite the cost it was well used. Everything at LHR was expensive in those days (and still is). 

[Banker]

1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said:

Indeed, which is one of the reasons why BA purchased it.  And despite the cost it was well used. Everything at LHR was expensive in those days (and still is). 

It was well used as lots of business travel before emails & zoom, teams took over and no easyJet to Gatwick. They wouldn’t last long now. Guernsey has it own airline and it’s cost 10s of £ms in losses and subsidies, also no easyJet there.