Airport.

[Banker]

4 minutes ago, manxman8180 said:

It won't be at that level though - as there is no way easyJet or Loganair will be paying the full rate.  It will be (deeply I suspect) discounted - not even double figures in cash terms per pax (setting aside APD).

Removing / reducing APD could definitely have some form of impact - either in reducing the initial lead in fare, or increasing yield for airlines.  Either (or more likely a combination of both) could have some role to play in encouraging / sustaining marginal routes.

Not sure if it’s possible to discount a tax but one for politicians to ask, these places in addition to Channel Islands are also APD free 

Fly from the Scottish Highlands and Islands Region, which includes Orkney, Shetland, the Western Isles, Oban, Campbeltown and Inverness.

They certainly won’t be generating lots of duty free etc revenue but are to help connectivity which is what we need as the economically avtiwere trying to attract won’t come without it.

[Andy Onchan]

6 minutes ago, manxman8180 said:

It won't be at that level though - as there is no way easyJet or Loganair will be paying the full rate.  It will be (deeply I suspect) discounted - not even double figures in cash terms per pax (setting aside APD).

Removing / reducing APD could definitely have some form of impact - either in reducing the initial lead in fare, or increasing yield for airlines.  Either (or more likely a combination of both) could have some role to play in encouraging / sustaining marginal routes.

I was under the impression that the Departure Fee was non-negotiable (on Treasury orders)?

[manxman8180]

3 minutes ago, Banker said:

Not sure if it’s possible to discount a tax but one for politicians to ask, these places in addition to Channel Islands are also APD free 

Fly from the Scottish Highlands and Islands Region, which includes Orkney, Shetland, the Western Isles, Oban, Campbeltown and Inverness.

They certainly won’t be generating lots of duty free etc revenue but are to help connectivity which is what we need as the economically avtiwere trying to attract won’t come without it.

I might not have been clear - was referring to the passenger charges (Airport), not APD (Treasury)

 

[manxman8180]

5 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

I was under the impression that the Departure Fee was non-negotiable (on Treasury orders)?

"Airport Charges – Airlines may make an application to the Airport Director or their Deputy to apply for discounted rates to published charges, under a number of different rebated schemes which may be in force from time to time"

From the T&C's

Edited 6 hours ago by manxman8180

[Ringy Rose]

54 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

What is the reason for Ronaldsway to have a high APD compared to other airports?

Do other airports keep APD charges down

APD is a tax and is set by the government. It’s not an airport thing.

The reason is that Rishi Sunak cut APD by 50% for flights entirely within the UK. We’re not within the UK so it was for us to cut it on our side. We didn’t- Ashford, in a rare moment of lucidity, made the entirely accurate point that an APD cut wouldn’t get passed on to passengers it would just go to EasyJet’s shareholders.

So we get charged £13 each way compared to (now) £7 each way for a UK domestic flight.

1 hour ago, Banker said:

Yes I’m not sure why some are supportive of highest APD in British Isles

It’s not the highest APD. It’s set at the same rate as the UK rate. We just don’t benefit from the domestic reduction as it’s not a domestic flight.

[Ringy Rose]

17 minutes ago, manxman8180 said:

It won't be at that level though - as there is no way easyJet or Loganair will be paying the full rate.  It will be (deeply I suspect) discounted - not even double figures in cash terms per pax (setting aside APD)

 

Loganair break down the fare cost and include APD and airport fees on separate lines. 

From the airport fees book:

£13 APD

£27 departing passenger fee

£1.90 security fee

£0.90 persons with reduced mobility fee

That totals £42.80. Which is what Loganair charge.

I’d be very disappointed- but probably not surprised- if EasyJet get a discount compared to Loganair.
 

[Non-Believer]

4 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

APD is a tax and is set by the government. It’s not an airport thing.

The reason is that Rishi Sunak cut APD by 50% for flights entirely within the UK. We’re not within the UK so it was for us to cut it on our side. We didn’t- Ashford, in a rare moment of lucidity, made the entirely accurate point that an APD cut wouldn’t get passed on to passengers it would just go to EasyJet’s shareholders.

So we get charged £13 each way compared to (now) £7 each way for a UK domestic flight.

It’s not the highest APD. It’s set at the same rate as the UK rate. We just don’t benefit from the domestic reduction as it’s not a domestic flight.

Why didn't the UK Airlines (apparently) just add the difference from the cut to their prices then, ie was the UK cut passed on to the passengers?

What this ostensibly appears to be is yet another case of Treasury's short term grab for revenue actually potentially helping to damage Island connectivity, á la Steamie pricing.

[Ringy Rose]

2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Why didn't the UK Airlines (apparently) just add the difference from the cut to their prices then, ie was the UK cut passed on to the passengers?

Looking at ONS statistics it doesn’t look like fares on domestic UK flights were cut by £6. It looks like the airlines kept it for themselves.

Which is, no doubt, why EasyJet would want us to follow suit.

Cumulatively that’s a nice bit of taxpayer subsidy.

APD for UK departures has stayed at £13 for economy short haul, rising depending on distance and travel class.

[Andy Onchan]

3 minutes ago, manxman8180 said:

From the T&C's

Wow! What an absolutely mental thing to do. If any those fees have been rebated then it's no wonder the airport in such a fucking financial mess. There needs to be a serious reset. That part of the agreement/contract should be handed over to Treasury.  

[Ringy Rose]

As for whether Ronaldsway is expensive, it’s only about a fiver cheaper to fly back from Liverpool. And Liverpool obviously have much stronger ancillary revenue streams.

 

[Banker]

27 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

APD is a tax and is set by the government. It’s not an airport thing.

The reason is that Rishi Sunak cut APD by 50% for flights entirely within the UK. We’re not within the UK so it was for us to cut it on our side. We didn’t- Ashford, in a rare moment of lucidity, made the entirely accurate point that an APD cut wouldn’t get passed on to passengers it would just go to EasyJet’s shareholders.

So we get charged £13 each way compared to (now) £7 each way for a UK domestic flight.

It’s not the highest APD. It’s set at the same rate as the UK rate. We just don’t benefit from the domestic reduction as it’s not a domestic flight.

Well it is the highest then , Scottish Islands, Inverness are within UK and there’s is NIL to help connectivity so obviously it does impact airlines choosing to fly to certain destinations.

Also Ireland is free and NI doesn’t charge for long haul destinations.

Edited 5 hours ago by Banker

[Ringy Rose]

11 minutes ago, Banker said:

Scottish Islands, Inverness are within UK and there’s is NIL to help connectivity

They’re only exempt on flights FROM those airports. Flights TO those airports from elsewhere in the UK still attract APD. It’s a bit of a loophole that flights from Inverness to London are exempt because of how the exemption is worded. But clearly the Scottish government are happy to keep the loophole.

It’s similar for long haul- but not short haul- flights from Northern Ireland. For similar political reasons.

Our APD is set on the same bands and the same fees as in the UK. It’s not any higher than anywhere else in the UK. And if you book a through ticket you only pay it here, you don’t pay again in the UK.

As for whether APD should be cut, clearly EasyJet would like us to cut it. They’ve had 36,749 passengers in August alone from IOM, with a 60% market share.

I’m sure they’d love for us to give them £220,000 a month in taxpayer subsidy. I’m equally sure they will take their bat and ball home as we haven’t done so. Doesn’t make it a sensible use of taxpayer money. Anyone who thinks the £6 would be passed on is living in lala land.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Ringy Rose

[Banker]

1 minute ago, Ringy Rose said:

They’re only exempt on flights FROM those airports. Flights TO those airports from elsewhere in the UK still attract APD. It’s a bit of a loophole that flights from Inverness to London are exempt because of how the exemption is worded. But clearly the Scottish government are happy to keep the loophole.

It’s similar for long haul- but not short haul- flights from Northern Ireland. For similar political reasons.

Our APD is set on the same bands and the same fees as in the UK. It’s not any higher than anywhere else in the UK. 

As for whether APD should be cut, clearly EasyJet would like us to cut it. They’ve had 36,749 passengers in August alone from IOM, with a 60% market share.

I’m sure they’d love for us to give them £220,000 a month in taxpayer subsidy. I’m equally sure they will take their bat and ball home as we haven’t done so. Doesn’t make it a sensible use of taxpayer money.

 

Well personally I and many others consider it’s one of the most sensible things to do with taxpayers money if it improves connectivity and keeps key personnel here or attracts more.

[Ringy Rose]

Just now, Banker said:

Well personally I and many others consider it’s one of the most sensible things to do with taxpayers money if it improves connectivity and keeps key personnel here or attracts more.

Does it improve connectivity though? Really? What do EasyJet offer that nobody else offers?

”We were going to move to the Isle of Man but EasyJet no longer fly to Bristol on winter weekends, so we won’t”. Aye right you are.

[Banker]

5 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

Does it improve connectivity though? Really? What do EasyJet offer that nobody else offers?

”We were going to move to the Isle of Man but EasyJet no longer fly to Bristol on winter weekends, so we won’t”. Aye right you are.

Well that’s not what 00s of Facebook comments say particularly Belfast route, also if it doesn’t help why are Scottish islands and Inverness free even if only departing?