Airport.

[The Voice of Reason]

9 minutes ago, swoopy2110 said:

User mistypes their registration number.

Parking attendant can't verify fee has been paid and issues fine.

=

System problem.

 

Right then 

Couldn’t have happened with the previous system of payment into machine on exit

Edited Thursday at 10:47 AM by The Voice of Reason
Replaced “old” with “ previous “

[Amadeus]

20 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

That may be so, but there it is still an error rate of 30%. You might say that it is all the fault of the customer, and that they should take more care. But the system is there for the benefit of the customer and not for the benefit of RingGo managers and shareholders.

If it is mis-typing, there is a system design problem and not a customer-at-fault problem.

I once caught a DOi parking dude in the process of writing me a ticket for no parking disc. Imagine his surprise when I pointed out the parking disc right in front of him on the dashboard. Looking at the quality of staff and turnover in jobs like that, human error is probably a massive factor and likely more on the DoI side than the people parking there. 

[lcd]

16 hours ago, mai wei said:

https://tynwald.org.im/spfile?file=/business/BusinessHansardIndex2126/W-202401-1200.pdf

Very interesting.... No quick fix then?

It would seem not! 

Two really revealing statements here in that answer:

Given the numbers of staff currently in training, the progression of the current cadre of Student ATCOs and overall training capacity, the Airport is unlikely to reach 18 ATCOs for at least another 3-4 years assuming no further loss of existing staff due to retirement, resignation or ATCOs not being successful in training.

and

The current short morning aerodrome closures are required on the current roster format which has been in use since August 2023. This was intended to be a temporary measure until the previous roster format could be readopted when staffing numbers allowed.  This was expected to be by Summer 2024, however, the loss of further staff in the intervening period has prevented this. It is now anticipated that a change of roster will be possible in 2025.

So the morning breaks are here to stay until "2025" - no month mentioned (probably wise given the April 2024 statement that it would all be sorted by August this year!

And as for unlikely to reach 18 ATCOs for 3-4 years, well that is an admission as it doesn't even indicate whether the 18 will be full qualified, part qualified or on a bank or not available for operational duty. 

This answer at least seems a bit more honest and it'll be interesting to see what the CM's answer to Mr Thomas' similar but different question will be about strategy surrounding ATC responding to the statement he made in July 2023. 

[Jarndyce]

58 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

the system is there for the benefit of the customer and not for the benefit of RingGo managers and shareholders

Have you checked your facts?

[Two-lane]

57 minutes ago, swoopy2110 said:

User mistypes their registration number.

Parking attendant can't verify fee has been paid and issues fine.

=

System problem.

 

Right then 

Let's say a company requires a login system for some staff,  there is a time critical aspect, and it is necessarily not straightforward. A contractor designs and implements a system.

The company finds a 30% error rate on the login, and resulting problems from the time aspect.

Is the design not adequate for the requirements? Does the company fire all the staff and replace them with other people - who also have a 30% login failure rate?

There was probably a near-zero error rate when the barriers were used. The gov. managers screwed things up by not maintaining the barriers and then took the easiest way out for them, without any regard for the customer (tax payers). I regard that as poor management.

[madmanxpilot]

51 minutes ago, lcd said:

It would seem not! 

Two really revealing statements here in that answer:

Given the numbers of staff currently in training, the progression of the current cadre of Student ATCOs and overall training capacity, the Airport is unlikely to reach 18 ATCOs for at least another 3-4 years assuming no further loss of existing staff due to retirement, resignation or ATCOs not being successful in training.

and

The current short morning aerodrome closures are required on the current roster format which has been in use since August 2023. This was intended to be a temporary measure until the previous roster format could be readopted when staffing numbers allowed.  This was expected to be by Summer 2024, however, the loss of further staff in the intervening period has prevented this. It is now anticipated that a change of roster will be possible in 2025.

So the morning breaks are here to stay until "2025" - no month mentioned (probably wise given the April 2024 statement that it would all be sorted by August this year!

And as for unlikely to reach 18 ATCOs for 3-4 years, well that is an admission as it doesn't even indicate whether the 18 will be full qualified, part qualified or on a bank or not available for operational duty. 

This answer at least seems a bit more honest and it'll be interesting to see what the CM's answer to Mr Thomas' similar but different question will be about strategy surrounding ATC responding to the statement he made in July 2023. 

When the chronic shortage of ATCOs first started to become a problem last year, the then DOI minister assured Tynwald and us that all would be well in short order, months, not years. 

Whoever supplied Mr Thomas with that information deliberately misled him, Tynwald and us, and should be fired.

Problem is, we’d need to find another interim Airport Director if that happened.

If I were Chris Thomas, I’d be demanding to know why I was misled.

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 11:57 AM by madmanxpilot

[swoopy2110]

11 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

Let's say a company requires a login system for some staff,  there is a time critical aspect, and it is necessarily not straightforward. A contractor designs and implements a system.

The company finds a 30% error rate on the login, and resulting problems from the time aspect.

Is the design not adequate for the requirements? Does the company fire all the staff and replace them with other people - who also have a 30% login failure rate?

There was probably a near-zero error rate when the barriers were used. The gov. managers screwed things up by not maintaining the barriers and then took the easiest way out for them, without any regard for the customer (tax payers). I regard that as poor management.

Or people could not be idiots and enter their own car reg number correctly ?

Once you've added your reg it's stored in the app and you just select it each time.

[Numbnuts]

In this statement from Crookall could the one ATC  on the roster who isn’t available for operational duties possibly be Pugh ? . He isn’t qualified to land planes is he ? If so says it all about the flawed idea to enploy a guy like him on such a small airport like ours. To say nothing of other ‘qualities ‘ he has . 

Edited Thursday at 12:11 PM by Numbnuts

[Roger Mexico]

55 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

In this statement from Crookall could the one ATC  on the roster who isn’t available for operational duties possibly be Pugh ? . He isn’t qualified to land planes is he ? If so says it all about the flawed idea to enploy a guy like him on such a small airport like ours. To say nothing of other ‘qualities ‘ he has . 

No, he wouldn't be included in any of these numbers.  From the start it was known he wouldn't be qualified to have anything to do with landing planes, which was why a new job title of Head of Air Traffic Services had to created for him.  Someone said earlier on here that he had been picked by Reynolds to "sort out" ATC with his forces background - and I suppose he has in a way, though not in the meaning we would like to see.

It would have been perfectly possible for him to have converted to civilian ATC when he left the forces, many do but it takes a good while and of course he'd need to have also taken the extra training for IOM here anyway.  Most people I've spoken to are equally perplexed that he's not qualified, but the current thinking in IOMG is very much about 'professional managers', who don't really need to be able to do what their underlings do.

[asitis]

57 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

about 'professional managers', who don't really need to be able to do what their underlings do.

... or indeed manage !

[Nellie]

2 hours ago, madmanxpilot said:

When the chronic shortage of ATCOs first started to become a problem last year, the then DOI minister assured Tynwald and us that all would be well in short order, months, not years. 

Whoever supplied Mr Thomas with that information deliberately misled him, Tynwald and us, and should be fired.

Problem is, we’d need to find another interim Airport Director if that happened.

If I were Chris Thomas, I’d be demanding to know why I was misled.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that as far as briefings for the Minister are concerned, the buck stops with the CEO, so it should be her job on the line here. This was clearly a hugely contentious, high-profile and business critical issue that she should have made sure the details which the Minister gave to Tynwald were 100% correct. She should go.

I recall that a number of years ago, when David Anderson was Health Minister he had to apologise to Tynwald for misleading them. It was subsequently determined that he had been let down by his CEO, who had not checked or vetted information provided to the Minister by other officers. 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/health-chief-exec-and39should-be-censuredand39/

The difference here, is that Chris Thomas is no longer Minister, but it proves the point that the CEO should carry the can.

 

Edited Thursday at 02:35 PM by Nellie

[Omobono]

don't forget your chance this weekend at Chrystals Auctions  to purchase at a knock down price , a unique piece of airport memorabilia  the  rescue launch tractor  and  at some later stage probably the high powered rescue boat , pity they cant sell the huge concrete slip they installed at Derbyhaven  but when you add  the cost of this lot it must be approaching £1 million coupled with the fact that   they never had anyone trained and qualified to operate it , and now someone wants to let them loose with  over £120 million  over 10 years  for a series of airport improvements , what a shambles !

[madmanxpilot]

1 hour ago, Nellie said:

I'm pretty sure that as far as briefings for the Minister are concerned, the buck stops with the CEO, so it should be her job on the line here. This was clearly a hugely contentious, high-profile and business critical issue that she should have made sure the details which the Minister gave to Tynwald were 100% correct. She should go.

I recall that a number of years ago, when David Anderson was Health Minister he had to apologise to Tynwald for misleading them. It was subsequently determined that he had been let down by his CEO, who had not checked or vetted information provided to the Minister by other officers. 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/health-chief-exec-and39should-be-censuredand39/

The difference here, is that Chris Thomas is no longer Minister, but it proves the point that the CEO should carry the can.

 

Thanks  for that. I do know that Chris Thomas and Gary Cobb were working very closely together at the time. He was instrumental in persuading him to come here in the first place.

The source of the data  regarding ATCOs will have been the Head of Air Traffic Services, through Gary Cobb. I had assumed it will have gone directly to Chris Thomas from there, but I must admit I don’t know the intricate workings of Government, so  you may well be correct about it coming through the  CEO to the minister, rather than directly from the airport management..

I suppose that It doesn’t get away from the fact that the source of the misleading info will have been the HoATS. 
 

 

[Roger Mexico]

5 hours ago, lcd said:

This answer [to WQ W-202401- 1200] at least seems a bit more honest and it'll be interesting to see what the CM's answer to Mr Thomas' similar but different question will be about strategy surrounding ATC responding to the statement he made in July 2023. 

Wait no longer - it's been issued today:

https://www.tynwald.org.im/spfile?file=/business/BusinessHansardIndex2126/W-202401-1190.pdf

At Tynwald Court on Tuesday 18 July 2023 [...] I alluded to a number of short, medium and long-term measures to increase the number of operational air traffic controllers at the Airport to 18.

At the time, the total number of air traffic controllers at the Airport was 14, comprising 12 air traffic controllers and 2 student air traffic controllers. Of these, 9 were fully qualified and 1 was part-qualified and available for operational duty.

For additional context, at the time of the question, the Airport had implemented a series of 5 short aerodrome closures of between 30-45 minutes during the day to facilitate mandatory rest breaks for operational air traffic controllers [...]

However, recruitment of air traffic controllers had already been initiated with one experienced controller joining the Airport in May 2023 and another subsequently recruited who joined in October 2023. A recruitment campaign for new student air traffic controllers was also completed in early 2023 with the 3 new recruits joining in August and September 2023 and then January 2024 respectively.

[...] The two daily short-term aerodrome closures resulting from the roster change implemented in August 2023 are still in place. It had been hoped to remove these in 2024 following the recruitment and validation of new staff, however this has not been possible as one experienced air traffic controller recruited in 2023 has subsequently left and another retired in March 2024, although this controller has been retained on a casual Bank contract for limited support during operational shortages.

Three's a lot of overlap with the answer to Christian of course though some new info (I've only quoted a little bit of the Answer, regarding numbers).

The trouble with the current numbers is that it will only take another departure to make things even worse.  That's why they keep promising things will get better and it doesn't because the experienced one who quit. They're also reliant on the retiree on bank, who will presumably have to retire permanently when they reach 65.

[Roger Mexico]

On 9/24/2024 at 2:21 PM, Amadeus said:

That the airport tractor? 
https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/lot/cefc4179abcaa0eb4d6d9b54ace6520a/0af8d24542e81eb9357e7ef448a6646f/vehicle-and-equipment-more-lots-to-follow-lot-62/

We've actually got an FoI to confirm it:

26 September 2024
Dear ###
We write further to your request, received 24 September 2024, which states:
"Are the tractor and trailer referred to in a Chrystals public auction being held this weekend and described here - Talus MB764 Amphibious Tractor First Registered 2012 Approx 99 hours only!

Full Service history
Talus launch trailer Circa 2014 the tractor and trailer purchased by the public authority for use in launching a rapid response RIB, primarily to be used in the event of aviation emergencies?"

Our response to your request is as follows: 
The Talus MB764 Amphibious Tractor and the Launch Trailer are the Department of Infrastructure’s assets and are being auctioned by Chrystal’s this weekend. The use of the vehicle was for the sole purpose of launch and recovery of the Inshore Rescue Boat during training exercises and emergency responses.
Please quote the reference number 4147245 in any future communications.

Two days turnround for an FoI is practically unheard of.  Maybe they were hoping to make a sale.