Middle

[Keiran Hannifin]

2 minutes ago, Peter Layman said:

it would also stop people being criminalised for £1.50 worth of weed

The problem is cultivation means you are making medical products without a licence. 

 

Its illegal to extract aspirin from willow on the Isle of man. 

 

They have that monopoly nicely tied up. 

[The Phantom]

2 minutes ago, Keiran Hannifin said:

The problem is cultivation means you are making medical products without a licence. 

 

Its illegal to extract aspirin from willow on the Isle of man. 

 

They have that monopoly nicely tied up. 

Yeah, but it's not illegal to grow a willow tree.  Or for that matter poppies or mushrooms.  

Surely it's if you start to process it in any form (other than drying) that's when it would be classed as a medical product. 

It's semantics really, they'd bust you for growing irrespective.  For doing zero harm to others, no dangers, no funds to the criminal underworld.  It's utter madness.  

Although I see the Govt are now allegedly investigating the harms done to society by drugs.  Fingers crossed that they're doing this in anticipation of Howie's departure.  As he's on record stating that Cannabis would never be legalised 'on his watch'.  Not holding out much hope however.  They'll probably decide that Asprin is really harmful and ban that or something similarly ridiculous. 

[TheTeapot]

3 minutes ago, Keiran Hannifin said:

 

 

Its illegal to extract aspirin from willow on the Isle of man. 

 

Is it?

Pretty sure no one is going to stop you making some tea. Also a box of aspirin is about 50p.

Regarding cannabis they should issue home growing licences, £200 a go, but point out it is still illegal and if you're wandering around stinking of weed or selling it you could still be prosecuted. Keep it to yourself. See how it goes, and then when society doesn't collapse push for fuller legalisation, and an entirely on Island cottage industry so you aren't involved in the global drugs trade.

I remain unconvinced that pushing its supposed medicinal properties is the way to go. I wouldn't be especially supportive of GPs prescribing it.

 

[trmpton]

Strikes me that every time someone is in court for a tiny amount of weed it is part of an overall bigger picture.

They nearly always have a long list of previous and the weed is just something easy to get them to court over.

If Joe, 32, no Police history got found to have a few quiz’s worth of weed in his door pocket after someone ran up the back of him at the traffic lights would he end up in court?

No he wouldn’t.

Not to say it shouldn’t be legal, but the perception that people always end up in court just for a bit of weed is not accurate.

[John Wright]

14 minutes ago, Keiran Hannifin said:

The problem is cultivation means you are making medical products without a licence. 

Its illegal to extract aspirin from willow on the Isle of man.  

 

3 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Yeah, but it's not illegal to grow a willow tree.  Or for that matter poppies or mushrooms.  

Surely it's if you start to process it in any form (other than drying) that's when it would be classed as a medical product. 

 

2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Is it?

Pretty sure no one is going to stop you making some tea. Also a box of aspirin is about 50p.

 

No, it’s not illegal to grow willow, or use the bark to make a drink or extract that might have medicinal and pain reducing qualities. It’s not classified as A, B or C under the schedule to the Misuse of Drugs Act. Different considerations might apply to manufacture of salicylic acid which would be covered by the Medicines Act.

Yes, it’s illegal to cultivate cannabis, probably psilocybin, and definitely to prepare psilocybin ( which includes drying, boiling, extracting the active ingredient - although the active ingredient isn’t water soluble ). It’s not illegal to cultivate opium poppies. It is to prepare, which possibly includes cutting and picking.

[Keiran Hannifin]

19 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Yeah, but it's not illegal to grow a willow tree.  Or for that matter poppies or mushrooms.  

Surely it's if you start to process it in any form (other than drying) that's when it would be classed as a medical product. 

It's semantics really, they'd bust you for growing irrespective.  For doing zero harm to others, no dangers, no funds to the criminal underworld.  It's utter madness.  

Although I see the Govt are now allegedly investigating the harms done to society by drugs.  Fingers crossed that they're doing this in anticipation of Howie's departure.  As he's on record stating that Cannabis would never be legalised 'on his watch'.  Not holding out much hope however.  They'll probably decide that Asprin is really harmful and ban that or something similarly ridiculous. 

I believe they have already put a slight limit on paracetamol purchases, due to poisoning concerns.  I could bang on about this for days... As I have a particular bee in my bonnet about the ACMD (advisory Council for misuse of drugs) having broken the law every year consistently since the 2014

 

Ewart and Gary Roberts both sit on that council. 

 

As for cannabis, the semantics are important. As cannabis flower is considered a medicinal product, even without extractions being taken. 

[Keiran Hannifin]

1 minute ago, John Wright said:

 

 

No, it’s not illegal to grow willow, or use the bark to make a drink or extract that might have medicinal and pain reducing qualities. It’s not classified as A, B or C under the schedule to the Misuse of Drugs Act. Different considerations might apply to manufacture of salicylic acid which would be covered by the Medicines Act.

Yes, it’s illegal to cultivate cannabis, probably psilocybin, and definitely to prepare psilocybin ( which includes drying, boiling, extracting the active ingredient - although the active ingredient isn’t water soluble ). It’s not illegal to cultivate opium poppies. It is to prepare, which possibly includes cutting and picking.

I literally have a recording of David Ashford telling me it is illegal. 

[Keiran Hannifin]

14 minutes ago, trmpton said:

Strikes me that every time someone is in court for a tiny amount of weed it is part of an overall bigger picture.

They nearly always have a long list of previous and the weed is just something easy to get them to court over.

If Joe, 32, no Police history got found to have a few quiz’s worth of weed in his door pocket after someone ran up the back of him at the traffic lights would he end up in court?

No he wouldn’t.

Not to say it shouldn’t be legal, but the perception that people always end up in court just for a bit of weed is not accurate.

Depends on the amount etc. 

 

By in large, you get a caution, a fine and have to attend a meeting to say you will never do it again. 

 

Which is ludicrous. 

 

A/ a £250 fine to a millionaire is the equivillent to me buying a penny sweet and not a deterrent. So legal for a price, also you're less likely to be smelled if you have a 500 ft drive way and a huge gate. 

B/ Admitting it has medicinal value, and then forcing someone to go to a meeting to say that it's bad is unethical. Imagine they did that with insulin, or anti psychotic?

Edited June 9, 2021 by Keiran Hannifin

[John Wright]

18 minutes ago, Keiran Hannifin said:

I literally have a recording of David Ashford telling me it is illegal. 

The interplay between Misuse of Drugs Act and Medicines Act is complicated.

Manufacturing Aspirin and selling would require a license. Doing it without would be an offence. 

Preparing your own personal use tisane  breaches no law.

The importation of prescription drugs is complicated. Much more so than necessary.

Recently I was sent a packet by an online prescriber from England. The packet was actually meant for someone else in England. It contained prescription only antibiotics.They’d made a GDPR cock up. It could be sent legally through the post because it was properly prescribed and dispensed and that’s allowed. I couldn’t return it because I’m neither a prescriber or dispenser and am not authorised to send drugs by post. 

It’s legal to carry personal use quantities of some prescribed medication across some borders. But not to have a friend post them. So, you could pop into Boots in Lancaster. Buy viagra. No prescription necessary. Travel with it on the boat. But you can’t post it to yourself, and neither could your friend. The chemist sending it isn’t clear as the regulations are a mess.

Cannabinoids are more complicated here as the law on IOM  has not been changed.

These all reflect cases I've advised on.

Moral, don’t take legal advice from a politician.

[Keiran Hannifin]

2 minutes ago, John Wright said:

The interplay between Misuse of Drugs Act and Medicines Act is complicated.

Manufacturing Aspirin and selling would require a license. Doing it without would be an offence. 

Preparing your own personal use tisane  breaches no law.

The importation of prescription drugs is complicated. Much more so than necessary.

Recently I was sent a packet by an online prescriber from England. The packet was actually meant for someone else in England. It contained prescription only antibiotics.They’d made a GDPR cock up. It could be sent legally through the post because it was properly prescribed and dispensed and that’s allowed. I couldn’t return it because I’m neither a prescriber or dispenser and am not authorised to send drugs by post. 

It’s legal to carry personal use quantities of some prescribed medication across some borders. But not to have a friend post them. So, you could pop into Boots in Lancaster. Buy viagra. Travel with it on the boat. But you can’t post it to yourself, and neither could your friend. The chemist sending it isn’t clear as the regulations are a mess.

Cannabinoids are more complicated here as the law on IOM  has not been changed.

These all reflect cases I've advised on.

Moral, don’t take legal advice from a politician.

Oh I wasn't taking legal advice. I was trying to get a grip on where we are with the laws. 

 

I wrote up my thoughts on it back in March and have mainly avoided the subject since as everyone expected me to be just talking about cannabis, and if elected I want it to be on the merit of more than just that... Bit of a read... But this sums it up :

From march:

I have not spoken much about cannabis on here, as I would hate to be labeled a one trick pony. And we have some serious issues on this island that need equal attention.

However, 2 days ago, it was 2 years since the results of the public consultation for cannabis were released.

TWO YEARS of 99.2% of the people who filled it out, who were in favour of medicinal cannabis being available on island being ignored by the people who gave themselves a payrise as a priority for the job that they do (which is to look after your interests). 

Now, here's some interesting information about medicinal cannabis on the Isle of Man:

Medicinal cannabis was confirmed as ALREADY being legal, here on the Isle of Man in December 2018 by our AG. With it already being legal, why can't patients access it?

Well, despite it being a legal medicine, it's illegal to import and illegal to cultivate (without a license).

The import licenses, could be signed off on the isle of man at any time, but the Department of Health and Social care have so far failed to do this. 

It's been claimed that this is because the Island's GPs do not support the prescription of medicinal cannabis, although only 19 of our GPs bothered to respond to the consultation in Dec 2019. Thats less than half.
That aside, GPs are not elected or hired to make decisions on legislation and they are not the only health professionals able to prescribe medication.
 They don't seem to mind handing out hormone altering, addictive drugs that they KNOW causes damage to their patient's health, e.g. opioid based painkillers. Worse yet, the Isle of man follows NICE guidelines, which means that GPS cannot actually prescribe cannabis anyway. 

The process and regulations relating to on-island cannabis cultivation and production formulated by The Department of Enterprise is obsurd, and grossly unfair, essentially making it impossible for our own farmers (or anyone else apart from the very wealthy) to get into the market. The license fees are absolutely extortionate and the requirements to be met are obscene. So, what's the point? 

Well, if you have a large piece of land and a network, you can rent your fields out to big business men in the UK and shy of the profit you personally make, all economic benefit leaves the island.

When asked if we could just declassify cannabis, or lessen it to a class c, instead of a class b to avoid sick patients seeing court rooms, we have been advised that if the Island was to do this, we MIGHT risk our customs and VAT agreement. Key word there, is MIGHT as NO ONE has asked/debated for years. 

So, with 99.2% in favour (as much as Manx radio likes to report it as "more than 50%") and the vast majority of the scientific community in favour, but both being ignored by people paid to look after our interests, this couldn't get worse, right?

Wrong.

As per the Misuse of Drugs Act 1976 (copy and pasted pretty much from the UK), section one, claims that the ACMD (advisory council for the misuse of drugs), are legally obligated to meet and report annually once a year. This has not been done since 2013/2014. So, not once during this current administration.

We are apparently attempting to change legislation around cannabis, but have not had a legally required council report on this, even once.

In 2016, we passed a blanket ban on psychoactive substances. Without an ACMD meeting.

We have 2x the drug related death rate of that of ANYWHERE in the UK. And our ACMD have not reported. 

By being legally required to report, the ACMD are breaking the law by not doing this.

Dr. Ewart and Gary Roberts are both supposedly on this council. So our chief of police and director of public health are actively breaking the law, whilst still criminalizing sick people.

99.2% in favour. Science in favour.

This shows that the government are inept.

1. Because they are not following the "data" as they so often hide behind.
2. They allow people within to break the law, with zero notable accountability or punishment. 
3. They seem incapable of profiting from the most profitable plant on the planet and therefore are happy to let people suffer.

[The Phantom]

20 minutes ago, Keiran Hannifin said:

I believe they have already put a slight limit on paracetamol purchases, due to poisoning concerns.  I could bang on about this for days... As I have a particular bee in my bonnet about the ACMD (advisory Council for misuse of drugs) having broken the law every year consistently since the 2014

 

I bought some flu remedy in NZ once and had to put my name on a register.  As you can process it to get the pseudoephedrine to make crystal meth. 

21 minutes ago, John Wright said:

 

Yes, it’s illegal to cultivate cannabis, probably psilocybin, and definitely to prepare psilocybin ( which includes drying, boiling, extracting the active ingredient - although the active ingredient isn’t water soluble ). It’s not illegal to cultivate opium poppies. It is to prepare, which possibly includes cutting and picking.

Interesting point considering.  I suppose if cannabis was at least de-criminalised for home cultivation.  We'd probably have to consider the same treatment for anything you can grow at home. 

 

[Keiran Hannifin]

^^ that aside, there ARE dangers to home grows. 

 

The "skunk" epidemic for instance. 

Many in the cannabis industry believe this was actually as hydroponic kits were made more available via Internet shopping. This led to a boom in home grows, which were done with none fit for human consumption nutrients... Leading to people ingesting huge amounts of heavy metals and other toxic substances. 

 

Prior to this, hydro kits were mainly used to provide flowers for weddings etc. 

[manxman1980]

41 minutes ago, Keiran Hannifin said:

I literally have a recording of David Ashford telling me it is illegal. 

 

19 minutes ago, Keiran Hannifin said:

Oh I wasn't taking legal advice. I was trying to get a grip on where we are with the laws. 

Wouldn't it be a good idea to take legal advice before proclaiming that you know what the current legal situation is?  Relying on David Ashford as your source is hardly a smart move. 

19 minutes ago, Keiran Hannifin said:

TWO YEARS of 99.2% of the people who filled it out, who were in favour of medicinal cannabis being available on island being ignored by the people who gave themselves a payrise as a priority for the job that they do (which is to look after your interests). 

Yes, the people who filled it out...  What percentage of the population filled it out?  Those who did probably had a vested interest in the consultation and that the outcome would be in favour.  

Personally I think it should be made legal but treated in much the same was as tobacco or if it is only for medicinal use then it is treated in the same way as a prescription drug.  I didn't submit my view at the time of the consultation though.

[TheTeapot]

I think you are completely wrong to attack GPs Keiran. There are completely obvious reasons GPs might not want to prescribe pot.

[John Wright]

15 minutes ago, Keiran Hannifin said:

Oh I wasn't taking legal advice. I was trying to get a grip on where we are with the laws. 

 

I wrote up my thoughts on it back in March and have mainly avoided the subject since as everyone expected me to be just talking about cannabis, and if elected I want it to be on the merit of more than just that... Bit of a read... But this sums it up :

From march:

I have not spoken much about cannabis on here, as I would hate to be labeled a one trick pony. And we have some serious issues on this island that need equal attention.

However, 2 days ago, it was 2 years since the results of the public consultation for cannabis were released.

TWO YEARS of 99.2% of the people who filled it out, who were in favour of medicinal cannabis being available on island being ignored by the people who gave themselves a payrise as a priority for the job that they do (which is to look after your interests). 

Now, here's some interesting information about medicinal cannabis on the Isle of Man:

Medicinal cannabis was confirmed as ALREADY being legal, here on the Isle of Man in December 2018 by our AG. With it already being legal, why can't patients access it?

Well, despite it being a legal medicine, it's illegal to import and illegal to cultivate (without a license).

The import licenses, could be signed off on the isle of man at any time, but the Department of Health and Social care have so far failed to do this. 

It's been claimed that this is because the Island's GPs do not support the prescription of medicinal cannabis, although only 19 of our GPs bothered to respond to the consultation in Dec 2019. Thats less than half.
That aside, GPs are not elected or hired to make decisions on legislation and they are not the only health professionals able to prescribe medication.
 They don't seem to mind handing out hormone altering, addictive drugs that they KNOW causes damage to their patient's health, e.g. opioid based painkillers. Worse yet, the Isle of man follows NICE guidelines, which means that GPS cannot actually prescribe cannabis anyway. 

The process and regulations relating to on-island cannabis cultivation and production formulated by The Department of Enterprise is obsurd, and grossly unfair, essentially making it impossible for our own farmers (or anyone else apart from the very wealthy) to get into the market. The license fees are absolutely extortionate and the requirements to be met are obscene. So, what's the point? 

Well, if you have a large piece of land and a network, you can rent your fields out to big business men in the UK and shy of the profit you personally make, all economic benefit leaves the island.

When asked if we could just declassify cannabis, or lessen it to a class c, instead of a class b to avoid sick patients seeing court rooms, we have been advised that if the Island was to do this, we MIGHT risk our customs and VAT agreement. Key word there, is MIGHT as NO ONE has asked/debated for years. 

So, with 99.2% in favour (as much as Manx radio likes to report it as "more than 50%") and the vast majority of the scientific community in favour, but both being ignored by people paid to look after our interests, this couldn't get worse, right?

Wrong.

As per the Misuse of Drugs Act 1976 (copy and pasted pretty much from the UK), section one, claims that the ACMD (advisory council for the misuse of drugs), are legally obligated to meet and report annually once a year. This has not been done since 2013/2014. So, not once during this current administration.

We are apparently attempting to change legislation around cannabis, but have not had a legally required council report on this, even once.

In 2016, we passed a blanket ban on psychoactive substances. Without an ACMD meeting.

We have 2x the drug related death rate of that of ANYWHERE in the UK. And our ACMD have not reported. 

By being legally required to report, the ACMD are breaking the law by not doing this.

Dr. Ewart and Gary Roberts are both supposedly on this council. So our chief of police and director of public health are actively breaking the law, whilst still criminalizing sick people.

99.2% in favour. Science in favour.

This shows that the government are inept.

1. Because they are not following the "data" as they so often hide behind.
2. They allow people within to break the law, with zero notable accountability or punishment. 
3. They seem incapable of profiting from the most profitable plant on the planet and therefore are happy to let people suffer.

TL:DNR

However you clearly relied on your recording of DA telling you what was and was not legal. Not a good idea.