The Phantom Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 37 minutes ago, Keiran Hannifin said: I am learning that there is certainly some conversations that are not likely to yield results. I have tried to answer each question as thoroughly as I have felt it will be received, even to a point of asking how in depth a person would like the answer. Is there something specific you have found to be too wishy washy? I will attempt to summarise in bullet points. 😂 We're about to approach page 13 of back and forth... And im yet to be able to bridge conversations about anyone else's concerns in Middle, or the island as a whole... And I suspect, for the most part, that im not even talking to people who live in Middle 😂 I live in the Middle Kingdom! Looking forward to potentially chatting to you about some of this when you do your rounds.... I'm fairly relaxed on most political/government issues. But my biggest bug bear is definitely the frankly outrageous amounts of money that are being wasted on projects - Horse Trams/Peggy the Yacht. Things like the prom and the airport vax hub, i appreciate need to be done, but not at the level/cost that has been. To be honest I'd almost rather the Govt had gone full despot and embezzled the excessive amounts of money that has been blown on these. At least we'd know where it had gone if we saw Howie in his white Rolls Royce with a gold plated AK-47. Oh and the Govt pension issue of course! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Hannifin Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Good morning! I completely agree about all of this. The speaker for the house made a very informative post, which is worth a read: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159506644832387&id=551537386 Certain projects like Peggy and the horse trams annoy me too. The horse trams, we call heritage. But. That heritage is based on the fact that we were the only people still using them, when everyone else had moved on. Why we keep this tradition, I will never understand. Peggy... That's a tricky subject, mainly because it is an amazing specimen and it is truly unique. My views on this are, £5m to transport and store... That could subsidise 2,577,319.58 hours of minimum wage to living wage. There has to be other options. Donate it to a British Museum? This way you could advertise the Isle of Man... Send a classic motorbike and a viking sword with. Another option, is to have it in salt water. This way you can spread the cost of £5m across years by paying a blacksmith and a wood worker to maintain it... And to train others. This keeps the skillset of craft alive as well as the boat. And the skill set is our real heritage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Hannifin Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) As for the government pension... Are you aware of "the company store"? If not.. It was a thing that happened, as America industrialised. Way out in the mines or cotton farms, miles away from the nearest towns. What would happen, would be a small company would start selling supplies to the workers. Capitalism doing what it does, started to increase prices. So. You work all day and spend your wages straight back to your boss and often even end up indebted. The Isle of Man Government is the biggest employer here and our rate of pay system simply does not allow a person to be able to partake in our society. This causes mental health issues, unaffordable Houses and a plethora of other unfortunate side effects. Including the pension issue. Poverty traps are EVERYWHERE on our island. The "obvious" answer to this problem would be UBI, this solves the pension issue too but the island simply does not have the infrastructure to be able to implement this and it would fall at the first hurdle. I have tons of ideas how to fix this. But they are all likely "too radical" Because "we don't like change" Edited June 10, 2021 by Keiran Hannifin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 17 minutes ago, Keiran Hannifin said: As for the government pension... Are you aware of "the company store"? If not.. It was a thing that happened, as America industrialised. Way out in the mines or cotton farms, miles away from the nearest towns. What would happen, would be a small company would start selling supplies to the workers. Capitalism doing what it does, started to increase prices. So. You work all day and spend your wages straight back to your boss and often even end up indebted. The Isle of Man Government is the biggest employer here and our rate of pay system simply does not allow a person to be able to partake in our society. This causes mental health issues, unaffordable Houses and a plethora of other unfortunate side effects. Including the pension issue. Poverty traps are EVERYWHERE on our island. The "obvious" answer to this problem would be UBI, this solves the pension issue too but the island simply does not have the infrastructure to be able to implement this and it would fall at the first hurdle. I have tons of ideas how to fix this. But they are all likely "too radical" Because "we don't like change" I think you’ve completely misunderstood “the pension issue”. A large number of civil and public servants are well paid, can afford housing and everything else, and entitled to huge, unfunded, occupational final salary pensions, with with the rest of us are saddled as tax payers. I’m fully aware that many IoMG workforce are low paid and it’s not their occupational pensions that are unaffordable. And, whilst the company store, or truck, system is interesting I’m not sure what relevance or analogy it has. The Americans copied truck from England. It was banned in England by a series of acts between 1831 and 1887. It dates all the way back to the 1300’s and was regulated by a series of Truck Acts from 1454. Of course it’s reared it’s head again recently by gang masters, immigrants and modern slavery issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Hannifin Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, John Wright said: I think you’ve completely misunderstood “the pension issue”. A large number of civil and public servants are well paid, can afford housing and everything else, and entitled to huge, unfunded, occupational final salary pensions, with with the rest of us are saddled as tax payers. I’m fully aware that many IoMG workforce are low paid and it’s not their occupational pensions that are unaffordable. I'm just looking at it from a perspective of a bill that does need paying... I think means testing things like pensions is dangerous. And the hyper inflated pensions are obscene. I think the first step would be restructuring government to have less management positions that need high pay, to stop this becoming a problem we can't recover from. Case in point is health on island. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians also just makes responsibility and accountability almost impossible to pin down. I don't think there is a way to stop what is already owed, but we could step in front of allowing the system to keep repeating this glaring issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Hannifin Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 *of note. My 23.5% donation of salary, is also including pension until death, or no manx worker is on less than living wage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trmpton Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 34 minutes ago, John Wright said: think you’ve completely misunderstood “the pension issue”. Just a little bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Keiran Hannifin said: Certain projects like Peggy and the horse trams annoy me too. The horse trams, we call heritage. But. That heritage is based on the fact that we were the only people still using them, when everyone else had moved on. Why we keep this tradition, I will never understand. Peggy... That's a tricky subject, mainly because it is an amazing specimen and it is truly unique. My personal views on these topics; - Horse Trams should be retained as part of our overall heritage railway offering. It is the mix of horse, steam and electric railways that make the Island attractive to rail enthusiasts. The fact that these are also not stuffed and mounted in a museum is a massive positive. It is a shame I never got to see the cable cars or the electric railway around marine drive or the numerous funicular railways that the Island used to have. - Horse Trams and traffic on the promenade. The promenade should not be a major traffic thoroughfare and alternatives should be investigated such as improving public transport into the town centre and discouraging personal vehicles. Make the promenade a much more friendly environment for pedestrians and you could also see an increase in the numbers of people going into Strand Street etc. - Peggy should be preserved on the Island and located in an environment which is most suitable to understanding her history and significance. That to me means reviewing and improving the Nautical Museum to make it a much more cohesive experience. - In relation to the environment we need to address the addiction that the Isle of Man has to the private motor vehicles. Simply put our towns, villages and road infrastructure was not designed to cope with the volumes of traffic or the size of modern vehicles. - Housing should be focused on sustainability and eco-homes that utilise renewable sources of heat and energy and are as efficient as possible. Building more of the same on green land is not answer. If new developments are built on existing farmland then the developers should also be required to provide suitable drainage to prevent flooding in future. A prime example would be the development around Colby where the farm land drainage has been destroyed/overwhelmed thanks to the new houses and now results in regular flooding around the Colby Glen pub. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 42 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: My personal views on these topics; - Horse Trams should be retained as part of our overall heritage railway offering. It is the mix of horse, steam and electric railways that make the Island attractive to rail enthusiasts. The fact that these are also not stuffed and mounted in a museum is a massive positive. It is a shame I never got to see the cable cars or the electric railway around marine drive or the numerous funicular railways that the Island used to have. - Horse Trams and traffic on the promenade. The promenade should not be a major traffic thoroughfare and alternatives should be investigated such as improving public transport into the town centre and discouraging personal vehicles. Make the promenade a much more friendly environment for pedestrians and you could also see an increase in the numbers of people going into Strand Street etc. - Peggy should be preserved on the Island and located in an environment which is most suitable to understanding her history and significance. That to me means reviewing and improving the Nautical Museum to make it a much more cohesive experience. We're talking £10m+ only recently for the both Peggy and the Horse Trams. I think I'd rather have this money spent on our crumbling infrastructure, sewage treatment, roads, health service etc rather than a barbaric anorak transporting traffic hazard and a slightly interesting old sailing dinghy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy123 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Keiran Hannifin said: Good morning! I completely agree about all of this. The speaker for the house made a very informative post, which is worth a read: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159506644832387&id=551537386 Certain projects like Peggy and the horse trams annoy me too. The horse trams, we call heritage. But. That heritage is based on the fact that we were the only people still using them, when everyone else had moved on. Why we keep this tradition, I will never understand. Peggy... That's a tricky subject, mainly because it is an amazing specimen and it is truly unique. My views on this are, £5m to transport and store... That could subsidise 2,577,319.58 hours of minimum wage to living wage. There has to be other options. Donate it to a British Museum? This way you could advertise the Isle of Man... Send a classic motorbike and a viking sword with. Another option, is to have it in salt water. This way you can spread the cost of £5m across years by paying a blacksmith and a wood worker to maintain it... And to train others. This keeps the skillset of craft alive as well as the boat. And the skill set is our real heritage. Do you think the horse trams attract tourism and money to the economy and pay for themselves in that way? Would be good to have some data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog's Dangly Bits Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Keiran Hannifin said: As for the government pension... Are you aware of "the company store"? If not.. It was a thing that happened, as America industrialised. Way out in the mines or cotton farms, miles away from the nearest towns. What would happen, would be a small company would start selling supplies to the workers. Capitalism doing what it does, started to increase prices. So. You work all day and spend your wages straight back to your boss and often even end up indebted. The Isle of Man Government is the biggest employer here and our rate of pay system simply does not allow a person to be able to partake in our society. This causes mental health issues, unaffordable Houses and a plethora of other unfortunate side effects. Including the pension issue. Poverty traps are EVERYWHERE on our island. The "obvious" answer to this problem would be UBI, this solves the pension issue too but the island simply does not have the infrastructure to be able to implement this and it would fall at the first hurdle. I have tons of ideas how to fix this. But they are all likely "too radical" Because "we don't like change" I suspect you don't understand the pension position. There isn't really a short term solution to solving the problem. Longer term some work has been done regarding the costs and the terms have now been changed, (reduced benefit and a longer lead in time until you get it). Still needs a bit more work in my view. The main issue can't really be solved. When you analyse the breakdown of pensions due to people the reality is that the majority of pension liability sits firmly across a huge number of public sector/civil servants who are not drawing large pensions (sub 10k per annum). This will only work it's way out over the next 30 plus years as people die off. In the meantime it simply comes down to raising more revenue to fund the position. That can really only be done by raising taxes. There are of course the minority that have very sizeable annual income pensions that probably didn't contribute anything/much/enough to. But you're never going to get away with specifically targeting segments of people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy123 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Phantom said: We're talking £10m+ only recently for the both Peggy and the Horse Trams. I think I'd rather have this money spent on our crumbling infrastructure, sewage treatment, roads, health service etc rather than a barbaric anorak transporting traffic hazard and a slightly interesting old sailing dinghy. Th £5m quote for Peggy was based on nothing but ther than some bloke pulling a figure out of the air and it getting lots of air time. Tynwald debated it and not one person said they would support anything that cost that much for the Peggy. This is the ‘fake news’ Christian was talking about. People now think it’s a fact and they are angry at their politicians - all of whom share their view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyJoe Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 How much did it cost to destroy the Manx Folklife Gallery? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, The Phantom said: I think I'd rather have this money spent on our crumbling infrastructure, sewage treatment, roads, health service etc rather than a barbaric anorak transporting traffic hazard and a slightly interesting old sailing dinghy. How old is the IRIS Plant and how much did that cost at the time? The Promenade is costing how much and taking how long? How about Peel Road? How old is the "new" hospital? What makes you think that we have the competence on the Isle of Man to manage large scale infrastructure projects without pissing money down the drain? Out of all those that you have suggest I would prioritise the Health Service. The horse trams are not barbaric. The horses are well cared for and the trams take very little effort to pull. The biggest issue is the traffic on the promenade which I have already said is something that I think needs addressing to improve Douglas generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog's Dangly Bits Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, The Phantom said: We're talking £10m+ only recently for the both Peggy and the Horse Trams. I think I'd rather have this money spent on our crumbling infrastructure, sewage treatment, roads, health service etc rather than a barbaric anorak transporting traffic hazard and a slightly interesting old sailing dinghy. Barbaric? Jesus wept. It's some big strong and well looked after horses pulling a horse tram which is fairly simple for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.