Local Authority Elections

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, Kipper99 said:

And where was he when he ran the campaign? IOM, Philippines, Greece, Macedonia, or Munich?

I think he was here. Tbh, Frank has a quality rare in Manx politics - intelligence.  He can also string a sentence together far better than many, and not stumble over tricky words like statistics.

Give him a chance, FFS.

[Peter Layman]

 

1 hour ago, Declan said:

I didn't label him immoral because of his opinion on the issue. My point was Amadeus ran a campaign on the issue to boost his profile ahead of a tilt at public office (he evens starts his webpage for his campaign for the Corpy with a brag that he ran the campaign). That's why I don't trust him. 

Maybe you should have put yourself forward then instead of sniping from behind the comfort of your keyboard. I'm happy for him to give it his best. If he doesn't then you might just have something to moan about

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, Declan said:

I didn't label him immoral because of his opinion on the issue. My point was Amadeus ran a campaign on the issue to boost his profile ahead of a tilt at public office (he evens starts his webpage for his campaign for the Corpy with a brag that he ran the campaign). That's why I don't trust him. 

Why don't you trust someone who is open about their position?  You may not agree, but is that a trust issue?  I would not trust someone who was not upfront or had hidden agendas. 

[Annoymouse]

1 hour ago, Declan said:

I didn't label him immoral because of his opinion on the issue. My point was Amadeus ran a campaign on the issue to boost his profile ahead of a tilt at public office (he evens starts his webpage for his campaign for the Corpy with a brag that he ran the campaign). That's why I don't trust him. 

Not that I particularly want to get involved in a speed limit/unrestricted debate but he also recently posted a video of what he felt was a dangerous overtake on the mountain and got himself removed from a Facebook group that he had been part of for many years, so at least he’s not afraid to speak out.

The constant pushing of his website is a separate matter entirely. 

[Amadeus]

54 minutes ago, Kipper99 said:

And where was he when he ran the campaign? IOM, Philippines, Greece, Macedonia, or Munich?

I have never lived in Skopje. Or Munich. I have lived and worked in some other places, including Manila from where I brought a multi million pound gaming project to the Isle of Man a couple of years ago.
 

When I first moved to Manila, I was also working for an Isle of Man company. The two places are surprisingly well connected and I am proud to have helped establish a new gaming firm here that now employs around a dozen people and pays thousands in contributions every month. People need to stop thinking in here and there terms. The business and the real world are small these days 
 

As for Declan’s comment: the anti speed limit campaign started on this very forum when (iirc) we were talking about it and I happened to be the one person suggesting we should do something about it and meet somewhere to discuss. That led to a filled Outback and the anti limit campaign that eventually won, despite the government trying their best to press through their one sided consultation. I am still anti speed limit and will always continue to be, election or not. Why you think I should be forbidden from mentioning something I did and still do believe in, I don’t know. 

[Apple]

16 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Tbh, Frank has a quality rare in Manx politics - intelligence.  He can also string a sentence together far better than many, and not stumble over tricky words like statistics.

Fair comment. I have said before though it is not just about the people elected. The system is weighted against anyone who seeks to "bang their heads against the wall for us". Maybe we don't help either with apathy and focus on single issues rather than for the whole of the island. The public benches in Tynwald and at various local meetings that I have attended are often empty.  

People who do put their head above the parapet are often singled out for sport, malice or to promote alternative hobby horses. Is not that how the last lot got in. ?

I hope I feel I can support anyone who stands who is honestly committed to the benefit to everyone on the island, not just a select few. If someone wanting my vote is open, honest and truthful then it shouldn't be a problem. 

 

 

[Declan]

16 minutes ago, Peter Layman said:

 

Maybe you should have put yourself forward then instead of sniping from behind the comfort of your keyboard. I'm happy for him to give it his best. If he doesn't then you might just have something to moan about

I answered his question!

I don't stand because I wouldn't be very good. If Hammer or Baker or Quayle had the same self-knowledge we wouldn't be in the position we are in. The problem with most politicians is they mean well but their ego makes them think they have all the answers and the skills to make the difference. Fortunately, for us all that's one flaw I don't have.  

[TheTeapot]

[oooohtony]

11 minutes ago, Declan said:

I answered his question!

I don't stand because I wouldn't be very good. If Hammer or Baker or Quayle had the same self-knowledge we wouldn't be in the position we are in. The problem with most politicians is they mean well but their ego makes them think they have all the answers and the skills to make the difference. Fortunately, for us all that's one flaw I don't have.  

So who would you like to see stand instead.

Basically you are saying that the people who “think” they are good enough aren’t by nature of the type of personality it takes to put yourself forward?

So what is the solution?

[Declan]

3 minutes ago, oooohtony said:

So who would you like to see stand instead.

Basically you are saying that the people who “think” they are good enough aren’t by nature of the type of personality it takes to put yourself forward?

So what is the solution?

That's a good question. 

I think the same sort of people would exploit any non-democratic system I can think of (communism, technocracies etc) and probably to a greater success. 

Democracy is an imperfect tool, but the best we've got. There's a few tweaks to the current system that could be made - CM directly elected, lower numbers in Local Authorities so people aren't elected unchallenged. A party system would help a little by acting as a filter for some of the worse elements - but not all.

Sadly, the solution is for the public to remain vigilant and critical of politicians. Just because most mean well doesn't mean the public should shirk it's duty to hold them in check. Demand integrity. Demand transparency. Be critical. Even take the piss out them so they won't take it out of us. 

[Gladys]

10 minutes ago, Declan said:

That's a good question. 

I think the same sort of people would exploit any non-democratic system I can think of (communism, technocracies etc) and probably to a greater success. 

Democracy is an imperfect tool, but the best we've got. There's a few tweaks to the current system that could be made - CM directly elected, lower numbers in Local Authorities so people aren't elected unchallenged. A party system would help a little by acting as a filter for some of the worse elements - but not all.

Sadly, the solution is for the public to remain vigilant and critical of politicians. Just because most mean well doesn't mean the public should shirk it's duty to hold them in check. Demand integrity. Demand transparency. Be critical. Even take the piss out them so they won't take it out of us. 

Well said, Declan. 

[oooohtony]

30 minutes ago, Declan said:

That's a good question. 

I think the same sort of people would exploit any non-democratic system I can think of (communism, technocracies etc) and probably to a greater success. 

Democracy is an imperfect tool, but the best we've got. There's a few tweaks to the current system that could be made - CM directly elected, lower numbers in Local Authorities so people aren't elected unchallenged. A party system would help a little by acting as a filter for some of the worse elements - but not all.

Sadly, the solution is for the public to remain vigilant and critical of politicians. Just because most mean well doesn't mean the public should shirk it's duty to hold them in check. Demand integrity. Demand transparency. Be critical. Even take the piss out them so they won't take it out of us. 

I was with you right until the last sentence.

Seems far too easy for people to have a pop when they aren’t prepared and/or capable of trying to do any better.

I suppose it has always been the way, and will be seen again in a different form when on Saturday night millions of overweight, tactically inept, talent devoid middle aged men are shouting at the TV telling Harry Maguire, Southgate and the rest that they are f***ing useless , when in fact they never had the talent or determination to put themselves in a position where they played football at the highest level.

Lineker, Shearer etc IMO have the right to criticise, the rest of us need to stfu.

Edited July 1, 2021 by oooohtony

[Declan]

7 minutes ago, oooohtony said:

I suppose it has always been the way, and will be seen again in a different form when on Saturday night millions of overweight, tactically inept, talent devoid middle aged men are shouting at the TV telling Harry Maguire, Southgate and the rest that they are f***ing useless , when in fact they never had the talent or determination to put themselves in a position where they played football at the highest level.

Lineker, Shearer etc IMO have the right to criticise, the rest of us need to stfu.

That's not a very good example. Shearer is just an opinion machine paid to generate opinions - like Katie Hopkins. 

And lets face it Maguire and Southgate are out of their depth. But it won't be Saturday they get exposed - wait until the final. 

[Barlow]

24 minutes ago, oooohtony said:

 

I suppose it has always been the way, and will be seen again in a different form when on Saturday night millions of overweight, tactically inept, talent devoid middle aged men are shouting at the TV telling Harry Maguire, Southgate and the rest that they are f***ing useless , when in fact they never had the talent or determination to put themselves in a position where they played football at the highest level.

 

A grandstand of gammon.

[oooohtony]

23 minutes ago, Declan said:

That's not a very good example. Shearer is just an opinion machine paid to generate opinions - like Katie Hopkins. 

And lets face it Maguire and Southgate are out of their depth. But it won't be Saturday they get exposed - wait until the final. 

But at least they were talented enough and brave enough to put themselves in the position where they were open to the abuse dished out themselves.

In my humble opinion that makes their views much more valid than those of a man in a pub or a football stand who has never even had a sports article published or been paid to kick a ball.

As far as criticising people from the stands I think it is a good example of the same behaviours being displayed here.  Loads of people knocking those who are standing or who have stood in the past, who wouldn’t actually want to take the associated flak and responsibility themselves.

Neither would I, so I don’t personally criticise individuals.  I may disagree with particular opinions or decisions but that is different to just knocking a person full stop.