Covid Deniers and Anti Vaxxers

[TheTeapot]

15 minutes ago, Hugh G Rection said:

 

Like I really, really really think we need a Lockdown to keep us safe at this point otherwise it really is going to be the worst outbreak of the lot so far when it gets here. 

I'm sure you would agree and play advocate for the above would you not, Teapot?

Surprisingly enough, no. 

Our next proper outbreak will be the worst of the lot in terms of cases though. I reckon early November should do it.

[ricardo]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

You’d think @Annwas @manxy reincarnated. Total tripe.

It is difficult to see where there is scope for reasoned debate about issues that could hardly be more serious when the response from forum members to clearly genuinely held beliefs includes a picture of a 'fruitcake' and that of the so-called moderator is a comment such as above.

It seems odd that comments that veer away from those being heavily pushed upon us by government and media are quickly ridiculed - the re-naming of this thread being an example. Why the compulsion to label anyone questioning the narrative as a 'covid-denier' or those legitimately wondering about the sense of rushing a population into a vast and experimental (according to the vaccine producers) vaccination program as 'anti-vaxxers'? Asking any valid question seems to result in one being quickly labelled 'anti-semitic' or a 'flat earther'. Hardly an encouragement to reasoned debate.

It has been clear for sometime that covid is not the deadly disease the media and government would have had us believe, nor the hastily rolled-out vaccine program the 'cure-all' we were initially told it would be. In fact, the mantra has moved from "2 weeks to flatten the curve", followed by "vaccination is the way out" to us now being told we must all have 'booster jabs' to remain safe.

Many who have previously chosen the usual innoculations have this time stood back and thoughtfully considered their health and the various risks, while also looking at governments' leap to bestow yet more powers upon themselves. Whilst official evidence of vaccine harms quietly mounts. It is difficult not to conclude that all is not right in our World, or on our island..

[TheTeapot]

Just now, ricardo said:

 

It has been clear for sometime that covid is not the deadly disease the media and government would have had us believe, nor the hastily rolled-out vaccine program the 'cure-all' we were initially told it would be. In fact, the mantra has moved from "2 weeks to flatten the curve", followed by "vaccination is the way out" to us now being told we must all have 'booster jabs' to remain safe.

Many who have previously chosen the usual innoculations have this time stood back and thoughtfully considered their health and the various risks, while also looking at governments' leap to bestow yet more powers upon themselves. Whilst official evidence of vaccine harms quietly mounts. It is difficult not to conclude that all is not right in our World, or on our island..

The reason covid has been such a problem is because it is new and no one had any immunity. Now people are getting some immunity mostly through vaccines it is becoming less of a problem. Vaccination is the way out, to argue otherwise is straight up daft. 

'Official evidence' of vaccine harm eh? Go on then, give us your official evidence. Some people have a reaction, and many times fewer have a severe one. Like with absolutely everything else, from beer to bananas.

[Andy Onchan]

3 hours ago, pongo said:

 

[Gladys]

47 minutes ago, ricardo said:

It is difficult to see where there is scope for reasoned debate about issues that could hardly be more serious when the response from forum members to clearly genuinely held beliefs includes a picture of a 'fruitcake' and that of the so-called moderator is a comment such as above.

It seems odd that comments that veer away from those being heavily pushed upon us by government and media are quickly ridiculed - the re-naming of this thread being an example. Why the compulsion to label anyone questioning the narrative as a 'covid-denier' or those legitimately wondering about the sense of rushing a population into a vast and experimental (according to the vaccine producers) vaccination program as 'anti-vaxxers'? Asking any valid question seems to result in one being quickly labelled 'anti-semitic' or a 'flat earther'. Hardly an encouragement to reasoned debate.

It has been clear for sometime that covid is not the deadly disease the media and government would have had us believe, nor the hastily rolled-out vaccine program the 'cure-all' we were initially told it would be. In fact, the mantra has moved from "2 weeks to flatten the curve", followed by "vaccination is the way out" to us now being told we must all have 'booster jabs' to remain safe.

Many who have previously chosen the usual innoculations have this time stood back and thoughtfully considered their health and the various risks, while also looking at governments' leap to bestow yet more powers upon themselves. Whilst official evidence of vaccine harms quietly mounts. It is difficult not to conclude that all is not right in our World, or on our island..

The problem is there is no debate from Ann, just a stream of links to articles authored by 'experts' of dubious provenance.   

You make reference to growing official evidence, but provide none.

Go to the WHO website for FAQs on many things Covid including vax.  Frankly, I would take their word on these things more than the online conspiracy theories.  But, of course, the anti-vaxxers will rubbish their provenance to comment, but who else is to be believed? 

Ian Kermode has published a letter to the DPH.  Has this been responded to and in the absence of a reply what is his next move?  Please don't respond with the 'trial' on 1 September; that has as much legal authority as me standing on a street corner and proclaiming that the anti-vaxxers have committed crimes against humanity by their stance on vax and the consequent loss of life that could follow.   The only legal consequence is likely to be a public order offence.

 

[John Wright]

37 minutes ago, ricardo said:

1. It is difficult to see where there is scope for reasoned debate about issues that could hardly be more serious when the response from forum members to clearly genuinely held beliefs includes a picture of a 'fruitcake' and that of the so-called moderator is a comment such as above.

2. It seems odd that comments that veer away from those being heavily pushed upon us by government and media are quickly ridiculed - the re-naming of this thread being an example. Why the compulsion to label anyone questioning the narrative as a 'covid-denier' or those legitimately wondering about the sense of rushing a population into a vast and experimental (according to the vaccine producers) vaccination program as 'anti-vaxxers'? Asking any valid question seems to result in one being quickly labelled 'anti-semitic' or a 'flat earther'. Hardly an encouragement to reasoned debate.

3. It has been clear for sometime that covid is not the deadly disease the media and government would have had us believe, nor the hastily rolled-out vaccine program the 'cure-all' we were initially told it would be. In fact, the mantra has moved from "2 weeks to flatten the curve", followed by "vaccination is the way out" to us now being told we must all have 'booster jabs' to remain safe.

4. Many who have previously chosen the usual innoculations have this time stood back and thoughtfully considered their health and the various risks, while also looking at governments' leap to bestow yet more powers upon themselves. Whilst official evidence of vaccine harms quietly mounts. It is difficult not to conclude that all is not right in our World, or on our island..

1. The problem is that there’s no reasoned debate possible with those who believe what they read and watch the YouTube content etc of the Covid Deniers. There’s a huge overlap between the ant vaxx, anti 5G, flat earthen, Freeman of the Land, Zionist conspiracy brigades.

They all suffer from an inability to critically research, digest, understand. They believe without question what the snake oil salesman tell them. They all suffer congnitive dissonance. Can’t accept the truth when it’s shown to them.

 I post personally. I make it clear when I’m moderating. Are you suggesting I shouldn’t post!

2. This topic has never been renamed. I set it up, as moderator, for Ann to post her thoughts, rather than banning her when her posts were risking making a mess of other Covid topics. It’s fully explained. It enables free speech.

3. Covid clearly is a new, and for some, deadly disease. Look at the deaths and long Covid. There was no natural immunity. Think, open your eyes, how bad it would impact without masks, distancing, lock downs, isolation and quarantine. Think, and again open your eyes, to the risk to adequate health care if the effect were not mitigated. Yes, the results of mitigation have exacerbated that as well. But not as much as just letting Covid rip. All solutions are political, based on knowledge at the time, advice, political and economic expediency. Humanity hasn’t experienced anything like this for 100 years.

4. You haven’t had Polio, Diptheria, Smallpox, whooping cough, or one of many other previously endemic diseases which killed, maimed, disabled, disfigured, because of vaccination. The principles are identical. Have many stood back? I don’t think so. Vaccination rates in IOM and UK are high. Especially for adult vaccination programmes, which generally have lower take up than child hood campaigns. Vaccination risk versus disease risk is still minuscule. The problem is many people can’t get their minds around the new way of developing vaccines based on new technologies, which have been in operation for the last 10-15 years. There’s certainly no mounting evidence of Covid vaccine harms.

And yes, I agree about the risk of the appropriation  of powers. I’ll be keeping close watch  that they’re surrendered as soon as possible. Fully accept there’s much wrong with the world and it’s politicians. But the sort of conspiracy to hide facts etc would be so huge that, and involve so many people, like moon landing conspiracies, that they’re impossible to run and hide.

[Ann]

3 hours ago, kevster said:

who is part of this 'evil cabal' and who takes the idea seriously?

Kev, are you up to the intellectual challenges of serious study?

If so, there are routes into this subject via the work of respected academics like psychologist Prof. Kevin MacDonald. You could read Prof. MacDonald's books and articles on his website, The Occidental Observer. http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/

People like Prof. MacDonald are vilified by the cabal, the reasons for which you will understand if you study this subject. If you are a committed truth-seeker, I could also recommend the work of other academics.

If you feel that the work of such scholars is beyond your mental reach, I can recommend authors who address this subject at a more popular level.

Whatever level of study might suit you, I would recommend that you do not waste time on controlled opposition / gatekeepers (David Icke, Alex Jones, Jordan Peterson et al.) and learn from genuine educators.

[Ann]

https://doctors4covidethics.org/rebuttal-to-geert-vanden-bossches-response-to-dr-bhakdi/

Doctors for COVID Ethics: Why general vaccination is not necessary or appropriate

"Dr. Bhakdi published a video presentation which explained that cross-immunity to SARS-CoV-2 is widespread in the population, and that general vaccination is therefore not necessary or appropriate. This was disputed by Dr. Geert vanden Bossche. Here, we rebut Dr. vanden Bossche’s assertions."

[Declan]

16 hours ago, pongo said:

Exactly - no reason not to just chip us, like cats. It would be far quicker getting through airports and no need to worry about leaving your wallet at home. Handy for cashless payments too.

Good in theory but the Manx Government will buy Betamax chips while everyone else is using VHS. 

[John Wright]

16 minutes ago, Ann said:

Kev, are you up to the intellectual challenges of serious study?

If so, there are routes into this subject via the work of respected academics like psychologist Prof. Kevin MacDonald. You could read Prof. MacDonald's books and articles on his website, The Occidental Observer. http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/

People like Prof. MacDonald are vilified by the cabal, the reasons for which you will understand if you study this subject. If you are a committed truth-seeker, I could also recommend the work of other academics.

If you feel that the work of such scholars is beyond your mental reach, I can recommend authors who address this subject at a more popular level.

Whatever level of study might suit you, I would recommend that you do not waste time on controlled opposition / gatekeepers (David Icke, Alex Jones, Jordan Peterson et al.) and learn from genuine educators.

What, the discredited evolutionary psychologist, anti semite, white supremacist? The guy who’s colleagues academic senate voted to dissociate themselves from. Supported by neo nazis, representative of the Alt right. The one who’s views that Jews have evolved to undermine society. Views that don’t bear any scrutiny as they’re circular.

The guy who can only get his views published at all because he runs and edits his own publication, The Occidental Observer, where anything published is never peer reviewed.

Hes not respected. He’s a charlatan and snake oil salesman peddling nasty racist conspiracy theories.

The only witness to give evidence in support of Irving, the Holocaust Denier.

I see a trend…

[Roger Mexico]

12 minutes ago, Ann said:

Kev, are you up to the intellectual challenges of serious study?

If so, there are routes into this subject via the work of respected academics like psychologist Prof. Kevin MacDonald. You could read Prof. MacDonald's books and articles on his website, 

This Kevin MacDonald?

MacDonald is known for his promotion of an antisemitic theory, most prominently within The Culture of Critique series, according to which Western Jews have tended to be politically liberal and involved in politically or sexually transgressive social, philosophical, and artistic movements, because Jews have biologically evolved to undermine the societies in which they live

[monasqueen]

It seems strange to me that the anti-vax, covid denier, flat earth etc... people seem to get all their beliefs from people who are "academics" or "genuine educators" and not from people who have actually got hands on experience of their topics. 

[kevster]

21 minutes ago, Ann said:

Kev, are you up to the intellectual challenges of serious study?

If so, there are routes into this subject via the work of respected academics like psychologist Prof. Kevin MacDonald. You could read Prof. MacDonald's books and articles on his website, The Occidental Observer. http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/

People like Prof. MacDonald are vilified by the cabal, the reasons for which you will understand if you study this subject. If you are a committed truth-seeker, I could also recommend the work of other academics.

If you feel that the work of such scholars is beyond your mental reach, I can recommend authors who address this subject at a more popular level.

Whatever level of study might suit you, I would recommend that you do not waste time on controlled opposition / gatekeepers (David Icke, Alex Jones, Jordan Peterson et al.) and learn from genuine educators.

Not the sort of person I would like to learn from:

The Occidental Observer will present original content touching on the themes of white identity, white interests, and the culture of the West. Such a mission statement is sure to be dismissed as extremism of the worst sort in today’s intellectual climate—perhaps even as a sign of psychiatric disorder. Yet there is a compelling need for such a site. A great many other identifiable groups in the multicultural West have a strong sense of identity and interest, but overt expressions of white identity and white interests (or European-American identity and interests) are rarely found among the peoples who founded these societies and who continue to make up the majority.

SOURCE

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

It is difficult to see where there is scope for reasoned debate about issues that could hardly be more serious when the response from forum members to clearly genuinely held beliefs includes a picture of a 'fruitcake' and that of the so-called moderator is a comment such as above.

It seems odd that comments that veer away from those being heavily pushed upon us by government and media are quickly ridiculed - the re-naming of this thread being an example. Why the compulsion to label anyone questioning the narrative as a 'covid-denier' or those legitimately wondering about the sense of rushing a population into a vast and experimental (according to the vaccine producers) vaccination program as 'anti-vaxxers'? Asking any valid question seems to result in one being quickly labelled 'anti-semitic' or a 'flat earther'. Hardly an encouragement to reasoned debate.

It has been clear for sometime that covid is not the deadly disease the media and government would have had us believe, nor the hastily rolled-out vaccine program the 'cure-all' we were initially told it would be. In fact, the mantra has moved from "2 weeks to flatten the curve", followed by "vaccination is the way out" to us now being told we must all have 'booster jabs' to remain safe.

Many who have previously chosen the usual innoculations have this time stood back and thoughtfully considered their health and the various risks, while also looking at governments' leap to bestow yet more powers upon themselves. Whilst official evidence of vaccine harms quietly mounts. It is difficult not to conclude that all is not right in our World, or on our island..

I apologise for insinuating that these anti vax/ conspiracy theorists are fruits cakes...

I meant to say dangerous fruits cakes....just my view.

Why do they feel the need to try and convince everyone else though. I know some anti vaxxers.  Yes I think they are crazy but I leave them with their choices. But why do they feel they have to try and change my views..potentially putting other people's health at risk with their silly views and believing heretics who post on the Internet.

[monasqueen]

2 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I apologise for insinuating that these anti vax/ conspiracy theorists are fruits cakes...

I meant to say dangerous fruits cakes....just my view.

Too much fruit cake is dangerous for your health.