Covid Deniers and Anti Vaxxers

[John Wright]

@ricardo no one with any scientific credibility believes there is any substance in Wakefield’s claims.

What, apart from unsubstantiated conspiracy theories, makes the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation “deeply questionable”?

Problem is there’s no debate with people who have gone down the rabbit hole. They only search and link to other on line material that supports their world view. Often because that’s how search engines and social media algorithms work.

Yes, skepticism and an enquiring mind are vital. The belief in conspiracies, flat earth, 5G issues, world Jewish domination, Covid denying and being anti vaxx means you aren’t open, you don’t have an enquiring mind.

[ricardo]

Anyone who has the courage to question the mainstream narrative risks their reputation. Being 'discredited' does not make ones' claims any less valid.

It is only you who continues to attempt to link ludicrous ‘flat Earth conspiracies’ with those simply raising different perspectives or asking valid questions.

It wasn’t too long ago that the tobacco industry was vocal about there being no proven link between smoking and cancer, despite it being obvious that smoking cannot be good for anyone. The tobacco industry was willingly abetted in this obvious untruth by the medical profession.

Information about the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and their dubious vaccination programs is available to anyone sufficiently interested. One can either conclude they are kind hearted philanthropists, or something else.

My intention was simply to raise some questions for those considering vaccinating their children. I feel enough has been said for now.

Perhaps we can agree that healthy scepticism and an enquiring mind are vital..

https://www.adweek.com/brand-marketing/throwback-thursday-when-doctors-prescribed-healthy-cigarette-brands-165404

[quilp]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Being 'discredited' does not make ones' claims any less valid...

What..?

[ricardo]

15 minutes ago, quilp said:

What..?

 

My apologies - a more accurate statement would be that in our World of bias and disinformation, with huge vested interests at work, being discredited does not automatically mean one’s claims are baseless. Just as being ‘fact-checked’ by Facebook-funded 'checkers' does not make them true.

Ivermectin is supposedly ‘discredited’ but below is a peer-reviewed study. Ultimately we must use our own powers of discernment, and as Stu Peters says above, common sense:

 

"Discovered in the late-1970s, the pioneering drug ivermectin, a dihydro derivative of avermectin—originating solely from a single microorganism isolated at the Kitasato Intitute, Tokyo, Japan from Japanese soil—has had an immeasurably beneficial impact in improving the lives and welfare of billions of people throughout the world. Originally introduced as a veterinary drug, it kills a wide range of internal and external parasites in commercial livestock and companion animals. It was quickly discovered to be ideal in combating two of the world’s most devastating and disfiguring diseases which have plagued the world’s poor throughout the tropics for centuries. It is now being used free-of-charge as the sole tool in campaigns to eliminate both diseases globally. It has also been used to successfully overcome several other human diseases and new uses for it are continually being found. This paper looks in depth at the events surrounding ivermectin’s passage from being a huge success in Animal Health into its widespread use in humans, a development which has led many to describe it as a “wonder” drug."

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/pjab/87/2/87_2_13/_article

 

 

 

 

[Happier diner]

6 hours ago, Stu Peters said:

Same with climate change. I've not been trained (nor am I smart enough) to read or digest peer reviewed papers on scientific matters, so like most lay people I read articles and watch documentaries by people who probably are. The trouble with that is the bias shown by the opposing factions means you are reduced to applying your own common sense judgement to decide which argument makes more sense to you. I may have made a mistake having the jabs, time will tell. I might also be wrong about climate change, again only time will tell.

When you are unsure its normal to listen to the majority view of those qualified and decide which school of thought seems to have the most credibility.

Yes of course its possible that the vaccine is designed to kill us all and climate change is just something that somebody made up...and of course there never was a virus after all.

Its possible that all these things are true and the millions of people who work in the heath service all over the world as 'in on it' as @WTF claims

My view is that the vaccine is a good thing, there is a virus and climate change is happening. I make that view because I listen to the majority view of those qualified and decide which school of thought seems to have the most credibility.

[quilp]

24 minutes ago, ricardo said:

 

My apologies - a more accurate statement would be that in our World of bias and disinformation, with huge vested interests at work, being discredited does not automatically mean one’s claims are baseless. Just as being ‘fact-checked’ by Facebook-funded 'checkers' does not make them true.

Ivermectin is supposedly ‘discredited’ but below is a peer-reviewed study. Ultimately we must use our own powers of discernment, and as Stu Peters says above, common sense:

 

"Discovered in the late-1970s, the pioneering drug ivermectin, a dihydro derivative of avermectin—originating solely from a single microorganism isolated at the Kitasato Intitute, Tokyo, Japan from Japanese soil—has had an immeasurably beneficial impact in improving the lives and welfare of billions of people throughout the world. Originally introduced as a veterinary drug, it kills a wide range of internal and external parasites in commercial livestock and companion animals. It was quickly discovered to be ideal in combating two of the world’s most devastating and disfiguring diseases which have plagued the world’s poor throughout the tropics for centuries. It is now being used free-of-charge as the sole tool in campaigns to eliminate both diseases globally. It has also been used to successfully overcome several other human diseases and new uses for it are continually being found. This paper looks in depth at the events surrounding ivermectin’s passage from being a huge success in Animal Health into its widespread use in humans, a development which has led many to describe it as a “wonder” drug."

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/pjab/87/2/87_2_13/_article

A labourious trawl through your links doesn't effectually back up your claims. And most of them mostly lay claims to IVM's efficacy in treating parasitic infections and its effect on the proteins produced by certain parasites, for which IVM has a seemingly indisputable track record. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by quilp

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Anyone who has the courage to question the mainstream narrative risks their reputation. Being 'discredited' does not make ones' claims any less valid.

It is only you who continues to attempt to link ludicrous ‘flat Earth conspiracies’ with those simply raising different perspectives or asking valid questions.

It wasn’t too long ago that the tobacco industry was vocal about there being no proven link between smoking and cancer, despite it being obvious that smoking cannot be good for anyone. The tobacco industry was willingly abetted in this obvious untruth by the medical profession.

Information about the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and their dubious vaccination programs is available to anyone sufficiently interested. One can either conclude they are kind hearted philanthropists, or something else.

 

My intention was simply to raise some questions for those considering vaccinating their children. I feel enough has been said for now.

Perhaps we can agree that healthy scepticism and an enquiring mind are vital..

https://www.adweek.com/brand-marketing/throwback-thursday-when-doctors-prescribed-healthy-cigarette-brands-165404

As a lawyer I'm trained to question mainstream narratives. Challenging is what my reputation is built on.

Flat earthers, anti vaxxers, moon landing deniers, freemen of the land, common law citizens, 9/11 theorists, etc all suffer from the same issue, to a greater or lesser extent, for some reason they accept without critical thought or analysis the pap they are sold by snake oil salesmen, people with axes to grind, people who want to cause trouble, or the plain delusional. They don't ask valid questions or have a different perspective. Its much more insidious.

Fully agree about the tobacco and asbestos industries. I dont think theyd get away with it now, the bigger the secret and conspiracy the harder it is to hid in the digital age. We've moved on.

As for Gates, that's a typical response. You darent put up any links because you know they'd be shot down in flames within seconds, its like Soros and anti semitism and Jewish world domination, its not true and its grounded in baseless prejudice and fear of the unknown and things not understood.

As for vaccination, I agree, thorny topic and every parent should research and decide for themselves, and of course its not black and white, most risk analyses/cost benefit analyses aren't.

 

[Andy Onchan]

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

Information about the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and their dubious vaccination programs is available to anyone sufficiently interested. One can either conclude they are kind hearted philanthropists, or something else.

What is that "something else"?

[TheTeapot]

1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said:

What is that "something else"?

Multidimensional blood drinking satanic shapeshifting lizard paedophiles

[ricardo]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

As a lawyer I'm trained to question mainstream narratives. Challenging is what my reputation is built on.

Flat earthers, anti vaxxers, moon landing deniers, freemen of the land, common law citizens, 9/11 theorists, etc all suffer from the same issue, to a greater or lesser extent, for some reason they accept without critical thought or analysis the pap they are sold by snake oil salesmen, people with axes to grind, people who want to cause trouble, or the plain delusional. They don't ask valid questions or have a different perspective. Its much more insidious.

Fully agree about the tobacco and asbestos industries. I dont think theyd get away with it now, the bigger the secret and conspiracy the harder it is to hid in the digital age. We've moved on.

As for Gates, that's a typical response. You darent put up any links because you know they'd be shot down in flames within seconds, its like Soros and anti semitism and Jewish world domination, its not true and its grounded in baseless prejudice and fear of the unknown and things not understood.

As for vaccination, I agree, thorny topic and every parent should research and decide for themselves, and of course its not black and white, most risk analyses/cost benefit analyses aren't.

 

 

This forum’s moderator continually seeks to lump anyone asking valid questions, or holding any view that differs from the mainstream narrative, as a ‘flat earther’, unable to differentiate between facts or valid supposition and nonsense peddled by ‘snake oil salesmen’, or worse, ‘anti-semitic’. In doing so he rubbishes the faculties of the near 10,000 Manx citizens who, at the least, have decided to wait until the experimental phase of the covid vaccines is over and the results proven. A view shared by millions Worldwide - thousands of them medical professionals. Given the propaganda we are bombarded with on a daily basis it is difficult to conclude that if there are ‘snake oil’ salesmen at large, some of them appear to be working within government and the pharma industry.

 

My intention in visiting Manxforums was to solely to encourage anyone considering vaccinating their children to do some more research before doing so. It is not my role, nor place, to persuade people. A public debate, between those qualified to put opposing views, would be most welcome. People better qualified than me. Doesn’t anyone find it strange that this hasn’t yet happened over an issue of such global significance?

 

There is certainly some extremely contentious information available about all matters relating to covid 19, the vaccination program, and ‘lockdown’. Some, much even, is undoubtedly untrue, some is shocking. Much that appears to have substance is diametrically opposed to the narrative we are bombarded with. It is for each of us to do our own research, if we wish, and to reach our own conclusions. If we are able to do that, and discuss what we believe, discover or have questions about, whilst retaining respect and kindness for one another that would surely be a step forward?

 

There is an avalanche of information available about what may currently be going on in our World and some excellent films/documentaries that seek to offer this in film format. Some are biased, some contain glaring inaccuracies but almost all raise valid or reasonable questions. One such film was ‘Plandemic’ - released as the World went into 'lockdown' in 2020. That film was of course was castigated in many quarters, as was their prime subject, Dr Judy Mikovits. A second film was recently released, which aimed to address some of the issues raised, and respond to critics. I don’t offer this as proof, nor claim it all to be true or accurate, but it certainly raises some interesting questions. Some will choose to rubbish or ridicule this, as is their prerogative. Others may find it thought-provoking. If one chooses to do some research - rather than simply go down YouTube ‘rabbit-holes’ - it is difficult not to reach the conclusion there is more to ‘the covid story’ than we are being told. I feel I have now offered enough perspective/information (or 'nonsense' as you choose) so am going to step away from the forum for a while - feel free to rubbish and ridicule any or all I have said.

 

But if you are a parent please look a little more closely at the history of vaccination.

 

Plandemic 2:- https://brandnewtube.com/v/ui8bHp

 

[philwebs]

FOIA request reveals what and who is behind this.

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/new-details-emerge-about-coronavirus-research-at-chinese-lab/

"New Details Emerge About Coronavirus Research at Chinese Lab

More than 900 pages of materials related to US.-funded coronavirus research in China were released following a FOIA lawsuit by The Intercept."

 

In short Fauci & Co funded and directed the research, including gain of function, and a Chimera which is something pieced together from parts. Shorter version it is a deliberate bio-weapon. Possibly not an accidental release. Fauci denied this in Congress.

Wonder if this will reach the mainstream media?

[Happier diner]

4 minutes ago, philwebs said:

FOIA request reveals what and who is behind this.

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/new-details-emerge-about-coronavirus-research-at-chinese-lab/

"New Details Emerge About Coronavirus Research at Chinese Lab

More than 900 pages of materials related to US.-funded coronavirus research in China were released following a FOIA lawsuit by The Intercept."

 

In short Fauci & Co funded and directed the research, including gain of function, and a Chimera which is something pieced together from parts. Shorter version it is a deliberate bio-weapon. Possibly not an accidental release. Fauci denied this in Congress.

Wonder if this will reach the mainstream media?

No because its just full of speculation and there is no conclusion

[John Wright]

6 minutes ago, ricardo said:

 

This forum’s moderator continually seeks to lump anyone asking valid questions, or holding any view that differs from the mainstream narrative, as a ‘flat earther’, unable to differentiate between facts or valid supposition and nonsense peddled by ‘snake oil salesmen’, or worse, ‘anti-semitic’. In doing so he rubbishes the faculties of the near 10,000 Manx citizens who, at the least, have decided to wait until the experimental phase of the covid vaccines is over and the results proven. A view shared by millions Worldwide - thousands of them medical professionals. Given the propaganda we are bombarded with on a daily basis it is difficult to conclude that if there are ‘snake oil’ salesmen at large, some of them appear to be working within government and the pharma industry.

 

My intention in visiting Manxforums was to solely to encourage anyone considering vaccinating their children to do some more research before doing so. It is not my role, nor place, to persuade people. A public debate, between those qualified to put opposing views, would be most welcome. People better qualified than me. Doesn’t anyone find it strange that this hasn’t yet happened over an issue of such global significance?

 

There is certainly some extremely contentious information available about all matters relating to covid 19, the vaccination program, and ‘lockdown’. Some, much even, is undoubtedly untrue, some is shocking. Much that appears to have substance is diametrically opposed to the narrative we are bombarded with. It is for each of us to do our own research, if we wish, and to reach our own conclusions. If we are able to do that, and discuss what we believe, discover or have questions about, whilst retaining respect and kindness for one another that would surely be a step forward?

 

There is an avalanche of information available about what may currently be going on in our World and some excellent films/documentaries that seek to offer this in film format. Some are biased, some contain glaring inaccuracies but almost all raise valid or reasonable questions. One such film was ‘Plandemic’ - released as the World went into 'lockdown' in 2020. That film was of course was castigated in many quarters, as was their prime subject, Dr Judy Mikovits. A second film was recently released, which aimed to address some of the issues raised, and respond to critics. I don’t offer this as proof, nor claim it all to be true or accurate, but it certainly raises some interesting questions. Some will choose to rubbish or ridicule this, as is their prerogative. Others may find it thought-provoking. If one chooses to do some research - rather than simply go down YouTube ‘rabbit-holes’ - it is difficult not to reach the conclusion there is more to ‘the covid story’ than we are being told. I feel I have now offered enough perspective/information (or 'nonsense' as you choose) so am going to step away from the forum for a while - feel free to rubbish and ridicule any or all I have said.

 

But if you are a parent please look a little more closely at the history of vaccination.

 

Plandemic 2:- https://brandnewtube.com/v/ui8bHp

 

You make the mistake of not checking the credibility of your information and sources.

There is something ironic about someone who says he/she is encouraging others to research.

Let’s take a concrete example.

10,000 Manx people are being rubbished for not receiving vaccine.

First, I’m rubbishing no one. There are valid reasons to not get vaccinated. It’s a matter of choice. But to choose you’ve got to search and understand the correct information. Not pseudo science conspiracy theorist sites. You need to learn the difference between my personal views, my professional presentations and how I act as a moderator on here. You conflate them.

Second, the figure 10,000. It’s a nonsense.

Population is 85,000. The number aged 18 to 100+ on GP lists is 72,484. Yet there at 16,000, approx, 0-17 year olds. So the 72,484 is overstated by 3,500, approx. There are many reasons why the 72,484 is an overstatement. They’ve been discussed on here.

Actual number vaccinated is 65,284. So, even if 72,484 is correct, but it isn’t, that’s only 7,200 who haven’t. So you’re over stating by nearly 39%. If you knock off the 3500 overstatement it’s only 3700 not vaccinated. So 10,000 overstates by 6300 or  170%.

Of the 3700 a few hundred will genuinely have contraindications. That leaves around 3,000 choosing not to vaccinate, by procrastination, not being bothered, or political/philosophical views.

And that’s how people like your Dr, or ex Dr, manipulate figures and facts. They take 3,200 and inflate it to 10,000. Then, from wrong figures they draw conclusions, which are inevitably flawed because they use the wrong number set or deliberately misrepresent the numbers.

[Gladys]

20 minutes ago, philwebs said:

FOIA request reveals what and who is behind this.

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/new-details-emerge-about-coronavirus-research-at-chinese-lab/

"New Details Emerge About Coronavirus Research at Chinese Lab

More than 900 pages of materials related to US.-funded coronavirus research in China were released following a FOIA lawsuit by The Intercept."

 

In short Fauci & Co funded and directed the research, including gain of function, and a Chimera which is something pieced together from parts. Shorter version it is a deliberate bio-weapon. Possibly not an accidental release. Fauci denied this in Congress.

Wonder if this will reach the mainstream media?

There was a documentary on 4, I think, a couple of weeks ago looking at the possibility of an unintended release from the virus lab in Wuhan.  It looked like a feasible explanation and a couple of days later the WHO report issued its findings, inconclusive. 

[TheTeapot]

1 minute ago, Gladys said:

There was a documentary on 4, I think, a couple of weeks ago looking at the possibility of an unintended release from the virus lab in Wuhan.  It looked like a feasible explanation and a couple of days later the WHO report issued its findings, inconclusive. 

It remains a possible scenario. It has happened before, the last person to die from smallpox was because of a lab leak in Birmingham.

The most likely scenario continues to be it that it jumped from animals. Like history shows us in the case of HCov-OC43. And that it will happen again.