Happier diner Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 10 hours ago, Ann said: Saw this in a shop window: Doctors for COVID Ethics Conclusion 1. It is beyond question that repeated vaccinations carry serious and unprecedented risks as outlined above. 2. While government officials, authorities and vaccine manufacturers may remain ignorant of the medical implications of such findings, any physician in possession of this knowledge cannot administer repeated COVID-19 vaccination in good conscience, nor in good faith. 3. Under no circumstances is it acceptable for a doctor to knowingly inflict harm on a patient. ALL PHYSICIANS ARE HEREWITH CALLED ON TO RECONSIDER THE ETHICAL ISSUES SURROUNDING COVID-19 VACCINATION. Full letter: https://doctors4covidethics.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Complement-activation-and-vaccines.pdf https://doctors4covidethics.org/ We all wish them luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 https://doctors4covidethics.org/supporting-dr-white/ Doctors for COVID Ethics: Supporting Dr White Dr. Sam White is a GP who has been telling the truth and therefore maliciously accused of spreading misinformation. He is facing a hearing by the General Medical Council to silence him and question his mental health. From the article 1. The latest estimate of average population Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) for SARSCoV-2 is 0.23% (0.05% for <70) which is around the same level as seasonal influenza (0.1-0.4%). 2. There is good scientific data showing that the risk of dying from COVID-19 is directly comparable to seasonal Influenza in most age groups and significantly lower than influenza in children. 3. International experts suggest that up to 90% of covid cases could be false positives. 4. Treatments of proven benefit: Vitamin D, Vitamin C, many other micro-nutrients including zinc, Hydroxychloroquine, inhaled steroids, Ivermectin. 5. Extensive data from the UK Yellow Card shows deaths and disabilities following vaccination. 6. It is biologically plausible that the vaccine will increase death rates from a subsequent natural covid infection due to the phenomenon of antibody dependent enhancement. https://doctors4covidethics.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, Ann said: https://doctors4covidethics.org/supporting-dr-white/ Doctors for COVID Ethics: Supporting Dr White Dr. Sam White is a GP who has been telling the truth and therefore maliciously accused of spreading misinformation. He is facing a hearing by the General Medical Council to silence him and question his mental health. Ah, the grift. "Dr White has told loads of lies and will lose his medical career. We need your cash to replace his income" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Gladys said: What I don't understand about anti-vaxers is that they ignore the huge benefits the old vaccines have had - polio, small pox, even mumps and measles - and that was from a time when the knowledge was pretty rudimentary. I had mumps and measles as a child, both were very nasty so much so I can remember being very ill with them. The usual childhood diseases from when I was a child are very much history now. Why? Vaccine, improved nutrition and health services too, of course, but mainly vaccines. Understanding and scientific techniques have advanced in the intervening years which means that the scientific community can identify what mechanism will give the best vaccine result, risk assess and respond quickly. So, two almost unspoken truths from the anti-vaxers: Vaccines have improved health beyond recognition Science has advanced unrecognisably since milk maids seemed not to catch small pox you're not wrong here. but vaccines are usually tested for years before they get certified for the masses, they also don't ask you to you sign away some of your rights before hand with properly tested vaccines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevster Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Looks like Jersey have had the COVID conspiracy leaflets delivered as well aided by Jersey Post!! https://www.channel103.com/news/jersey/jersey-post-suspends-delivery-of-leaflet/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, WTF said: you're not wrong here. but vaccines are usually tested for years before they get certified for the masses, they also don't ask you to you sign away some of your rights before hand with properly tested vaccines. True, but we have an immediate need. Other vaccines were developed for endemic diseases so had the luxury of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardo Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Hello forum'ers It does't feel helpful that those with valid questions about covid or vaccination are immediately rubbished as 'deniers' or 'anti-vaxxers' - surely healthy debate is the essence of a healthy democracy? Most people I know who haven't yet had a covid vaccination have previously had most or all of the 'normal' ones so 'anti vax' doesn't describe their position at all. A lot of people - 10k plus 'on island' - have understandable and valid concerns. Many of these were meaningfully addressed by advocate Ian Kermode in his, as yet unanswered, mail to the director of public health. Categorising legitimate concerns and questions into 'flat earth' territory - as has happened with this thread - is demeaning and absurd, and does nothing to address the questions that will continue.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 35 minutes ago, ricardo said: It does't feel helpful that those with valid questions about covid or vaccination are immediately rubbished as 'deniers' or 'anti-vaxxers' - surely healthy debate is the essence of a healthy democracy? I haven't seen any valid questions be poo-poo'd. I have seen lots of ridiculous questions and allegations be rubbished though. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 40 minutes ago, ricardo said: . Many of these were meaningfully addressed by advocate Ian Kermode in his, as yet unanswered, mail to the director of public health. Do you have a copy of that? I think you should read it again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevster Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 47 minutes ago, ricardo said: Hello forum'ers It does't feel helpful that those with valid questions about covid or vaccination are immediately rubbished as 'deniers' or 'anti-vaxxers' - surely healthy debate is the essence of a healthy democracy? Most people I know who haven't yet had a covid vaccination have previously had most or all of the 'normal' ones so 'anti vax' doesn't describe their position at all. A lot of people - 10k plus 'on island' - have understandable and valid concerns. Many of these were meaningfully addressed by advocate Ian Kermode in his, as yet unanswered, mail to the director of public health. Categorising legitimate concerns and questions into 'flat earth' territory - as has happened with this thread - is demeaning and absurd, and does nothing to address the questions that will continue.. It's one thing to have understandable and valid concerns, but quite another to hang on every word uttered by far-right, anti-Semitic, new world order believing nutters. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, ricardo said: Hello forum'ers It does't feel helpful that those with valid questions about covid or vaccination are immediately rubbished as 'deniers' or 'anti-vaxxers' - surely healthy debate is the essence of a healthy democracy? Welcome Fair point, but as I see it there is no debate. @Ann just pastes links from lunatics but then refuses to debate the points. Bring on the debate. But don't just believe everything you see on youtube etc and then quote other people. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 3 hours ago, WTF said: you're not wrong here. but vaccines are usually tested for years No they are not all tested for years. E.g. Flu vaccines change so much they are developed quickly as new variants emerge and tested just like the Corina virus ones were. If you listen to the AZ lady she explained how standard protocols were used to develop the AZ vaccine and standard testing. No corners were cut, they just dedicated a huge resource to it to do it as quickly as possible. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vaxxers-Inside-AstraZeneca-Vaccine-Against/dp/1529369851/ref=sr_1_16?crid=31KCFNNHQJOTU&dchild=1&keywords=vaccine+book&qid=1629198537&sprefix=vaccine%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-16 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 11 hours ago, wrighty said: Just looked this up. Amazingly, Peter Duesberg is still going on about HIV not causing AIDS. A lot of the stuff in this wiki article sounds a lot like the current covid denialism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duesberg_hypothesis That's not a surprise. Science is wide and various, but anti-science always (and can only) use the same tricks. And it springs from the same motivations: a belief from its advocates that they are special in some way and just know what is right and a resentment of science with its culture of informed debate and weighing up the evidence. Instead they prefer assertion and an attitude that science is just a matter of competing beliefs that are equal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 4 hours ago, Ann said: https://doctors4covidethics.org/supporting-dr-white/ Doctors for COVID Ethics: Supporting Dr White Dr. Sam White is a GP who has been telling the truth and therefore maliciously accused of spreading misinformation. He is facing a hearing by the General Medical Council to silence him and question his mental health. From the article 1. The latest estimate of average population Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) for SARSCoV-2 is 0.23% (0.05% for <70) which is around the same level as seasonal influenza (0.1-0.4%). 2. There is good scientific data showing that the risk of dying from COVID-19 is directly comparable to seasonal Influenza in most age groups and significantly lower than influenza in children. 3. International experts suggest that up to 90% of covid cases could be false positives. 4. Treatments of proven benefit: Vitamin D, Vitamin C, many other micro-nutrients including zinc, Hydroxychloroquine, inhaled steroids, Ivermectin. 5. Extensive data from the UK Yellow Card shows deaths and disabilities following vaccination. 6. It is biologically plausible that the vaccine will increase death rates from a subsequent natural covid infection due to the phenomenon of antibody dependent enhancement. https://doctors4covidethics.org/ Combining points 1 and 3 - doesn’t that imply a true IFR of 2.3%, which is quite high really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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