Covid Deniers and Anti Vaxxers

[manxfisherman]

3 minutes ago, quilp said:

I would agree. People become complacent and therefore less cautious. 

It's not even about being complacent. It's normality. People would be absolutely shocked if they realised how many viruses they contract and how often. Still complete denial from some about how important it is too. But the point I was making to rebut @Banker weird statement was 1) you can't transmit it if you're dead, and 2) if you aren't seriously unwell then you're likely to remain part of society.

There's an article in the independent 'current covid wave has peaked and scientists don't know why'. Well, it's because of the enormous amount of immunity people have. Being immune does not mean not contracting viruses. Seriously, people should read a dictionary.

 

[Cambon]

5 hours ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

You can bet that if someone was hit by a bus after having their jab, some would try and attribute that to it. 

Who needs facts when it’s all about the big bad big pharma?

We'll, they would have counted as a Covid death if they were hit by a bus within 28 days of testing positive for Covid, even if they were negative at the time of being killed. 

[Itsmeee]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:42 PM, Gladys said:

Under interests or career?

Hobbies

[AcousticallyChallenged]

2 hours ago, Cambon said:

We'll, they would have counted as a Covid death if they were hit by a bus within 28 days of testing positive for Covid, even if they were negative at the time of being killed. 

Ah. But then, everyone glosses over the value of that data, and the difference of deaths with COVID and deaths from COVID.

Getting death certificates etc. sorted takes a while. Deaths with COVID gives you data on general death trends, as well as community prevalence of COVID in those who are dying.

The data for deaths from, or related to, COVID isn’t hidden at all. It’s published by the ONS. It just takes time to collate it, which isn’t ideal when you want to act quickly. 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

5 hours ago, Robthetoad said:

I would rather not bury my head in the sand and take what the mainstream media and governments tell us is "fact".

I see Pfizer have come out recently and said they never tested the mRNA Covid vaccine for transmission. So why the fuck did we have to prove our vaccination status - Covid passes anyone... to go on holiday, go to events etc etc., I mean what's the point. 

As I said earlier, take the vaccine if you think it's going to do you some good. Don't take it if you think it's pointless for your age group and are worried about side effects. That's called choice. But coercing people into taking a rushed vaccine or you will lose your civil liberties is just abhorrent and I can't forgive that.

That’s not a huge revelation or secret though. 

The study in question was the phase 3 trial. That’s the bit where they look at safety and efficacy in larger numbers. This was done under the time constraints of rolling out as quickly as possible, whilst subjecting it to the same safety scrutiny as any other vaccine.

But hey, it sounds far more controversial if you spin it a different way. 

Funnily enough, you can actually find the data that does prove it reduces transmission that was published once the vaccine was rolled out. 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

4 hours ago, manxfisherman said:

I am no fan of mandates, I thought vaccine passports were abhorrent and the policy of sacking healthcare workers for not getting vaccinated completely insane.

I have a problem with the 'not tested for transmission' shit that is being spewed out all over social media though. The people using it as a gotcha can be placed in one of the following groups.

• They don't understand what it means.
• They are malicious.
• They are stupid.

The point of the vaccine has always been to reduce severity. Some of the messaging has not been good enough on that point for sure. 

Is it also abhorrent to have to prove a TB or yellow fever vaccine for travel? Or to require any of the other vast array of vaccines that healthcare workers are expected to have?

[manxfisherman]

3 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Is it also abhorrent to have to prove a TB or yellow fever vaccine for travel? Or to require any of the other vast array of vaccines that healthcare workers are expected to have?

TB and yellow fever aren't common respiratory viruses.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

Just now, manxfisherman said:

TB and yellow fever aren't common respiratory viruses.

So, there’s an arbitrary line of what is and isn’t tyrannical that you have drawn?

[manxfisherman]

8 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Funnily enough, you can actually find the data that does prove it reduces transmission that was published once the vaccine was rolled out. 

Every country has had several enormous waves of transmission post vaccine rollout.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

Just now, manxfisherman said:

Every country has had several enormous waves of transmission post vaccine rollout.

Well, yes.

The effects of reduced transmission will be up against the process of getting back to normal increasing transmission. 

Where’s the mystery there?

You could do the maths if you’re bored and clever enough to find out where the crossover point is. 

[manxfisherman]

17 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

So, there’s an arbitrary line of what is and isn’t tyrannical that you have drawn?

It mostly comes down to what you think sarscov2 is. If you think it is an entirely normal common respiratory pathogen that has been really bad for people who didn't get when they were kids 60 years ago then you will think that all the bullshit we've had to put up with was abhorrent. If you think it is the worst thing ever and we should still be wearing masks then you'll think I'm abhorrent. All the issue with it ever was was that lack of immunity, its nothing special.

TB, yellow fever, malaria, dengue, ebola, leprosy, countless others, all much much worse, all much harder to catch. Covid is inevitable.

Edited October 18, 2022 by manxfisherman

[manxfisherman]

22 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Well, yes.

The effects of reduced transmission will be up against the process of getting back to normal increasing transmission. 

 

This doesn't make any sense.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

6 minutes ago, manxfisherman said:

It mostly comes down to what you think sarscov2 is. If you think it is an entirely normal common respiratory pathogen that has been really bad for people who didn't get when they were kids 60 years ago then you will think that all the bullshit we've had to put up with was abhorrent. If you think it is the worst thing ever and we should still be wearing masks then you'll think I'm abhorrent. All the issue with it ever was was that lack of immunity, its nothing special.

TB, yellow fever, malaria, dengue, ebola, leprosy, countless others, all much much worse, all much harder to catch. Covid is inevitable.

Whether or not it's a regular old pathogen, it was generally quite problematic ripping through the best part of 7 billion people unchecked with minimal immunity.

I caught COVID double jabbed, possibly boostered, can't remember, not near any risk groups and was bloody awful. I'd have hated it without the jabs. Pretty sure I had it back in 2020 too and I was seriously ill for a few weeks.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

1 minute ago, manxfisherman said:

This doesn't make any sense.

Using some very hypothetical figures to illustrate a point in simple terms,

If vaccine reduces transmission by 2x, but going back to normal with no social distancing etc. increases transmission by 10x, then, you're likely going to have more outbreaks.

It's not really that convoluted.

[manxfisherman]

9 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Whether or not it's a regular old pathogen, it was generally quite problematic ripping through the best part of 7 billion people unchecked with minimal immunity.

I caught COVID double jabbed, possibly boostered, can't remember, not near any risk groups and was bloody awful. I'd have hated it without the jabs. Pretty sure I had it back in 2020 too and I was seriously ill for a few weeks.

Well quite. It's that minimal immunity that has always been the issue. And the older a countries population the worse the effects. Got to keep pumping that immunity into the older people and letting people like yourself catch it, however unpleasant that may be. I had it post booster, and while I've been more ill in the past I don't think I've ever been as tired. It was quite ridiculous for a couple of days.

8 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Using some very hypothetical figures to illustrate a point in simple terms,

If vaccine reduces transmission by 2x, but going back to normal with no social distancing etc. increases transmission by 10x, then, you're likely going to have more outbreaks.

It's not really that convoluted.

It's that 'back to normal' bit. All the other stuff was abnormal. The reduction in transmission created by vaccination is very small, these types of viruses will transmit like crazy when its their time and eventually an equilibrium will be found. 

We're nearly there now, this winter might still be a bit rough, but theres a lot of immunity in populations now. Can't stop the clock though.

Ever read this? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2095096/