Gambling (again probably)

[Amadeus]

1 hour ago, Banker said:

Gambling should be taxed in the same way as tobacco & alcohol industries, it can cause significant harm with many broken homes/sucides /depression etc linked to excessive gambling.

Theres not even a compulsory levy which GSC scrapped only a voluntary levy.

What? There is gambling duty and there is also an annual requirement to contribute to an addiction charity. Neither are voluntary. 

[Banker]

2 hours ago, Amadeus said:

What? There is gambling duty and there is also an annual requirement to contribute to an addiction charity. Neither are voluntary. 

The annual requirement to contribute to charities is voluntary I understand not mandatory. Also gambling duty is nothing compared to what alcohol & tobacco are taxed & needs increasing substantially to contribute more to NHS etc 

[Amadeus]

2 hours ago, Banker said:

The annual requirement to contribute to charities is voluntary I understand not mandatory. Also gambling duty is nothing compared to what alcohol & tobacco are taxed & needs increasing substantially to contribute more to NHS etc 

You understand wrong. It is very much mandatory. 

I'd argue the number of people negatively affected by alcohol, tobacco and gambling are vastly different. 

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, Banker said:

The annual requirement to contribute to charities is voluntary I understand not mandatory. Also gambling duty is nothing compared to what alcohol & tobacco are taxed & needs increasing substantially to contribute more to NHS etc 

No the contribution is compulsory.  There's quite a bit a leeway over who the donation(s) go to, but the Gambling Supervision Commission do check.  According to their last available report (2020-21):

As for gambling duty however:

Gambling Duty
Gambling Duty Gambling Duty on the Isle of Man is based on proit, NOT turnover. Duty is paid on either ‘stakes minus winnings’ or ‘retained proit’ depending on the type of gambling activity. With written approval from Customs and Excise, an operator may be authorised to exclude afiliate payments from their duty calculation. The Gambling Duty rates are:

(Their typos)  It doesn't look particularly onerous.

[WTF]

39 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

You understand wrong. It is very much mandatory. 

I'd argue the number of people negatively affected by alcohol, tobacco and gambling are vastly different. 

and the number negatively affected by marriage exceeds those 3 put together

[offshoremanxman]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

As for gambling duty however:

Gambling Duty
Gambling Duty Gambling Duty on the Isle of Man is based on proit, NOT turnover. Duty is paid on either ‘stakes minus winnings’ or ‘retained proit’ depending on the type of gambling activity. With written approval from Customs and Excise, an operator may be authorised to exclude afiliate payments from their duty calculation. The Gambling Duty rates are:

(Their typos)  It doesn't look particularly onerous.

It’s basically a peppercorn tax on excess profits. As you say not onerous at all when the sellers of alcohol are paying 17.5% in VAT on sales turnover not net profit.

Edited April 19, 2023 by offshoremanxman

[joebean]

The Island has engaged very willingly in this filthy trade for a few years and does very well from it. Nobody should be surprised by the content of the article. This is how we make our money and keep people in employment. Our Government has always been very adept at turning its back on questions about the morality of the people it gets into bed with. It’s just a fact of our economic life. Addressing it would lead to some big decisions about the Isle of Man’s economic and political viability. 

[Amadeus]

Serious question: what industry or industries do you think we should and could attract that aligns with your moral compass?

[code99]

1 hour ago, joebean said:

The Island has engaged very willingly in this filthy trade for a few years and does very well from it. Nobody should be surprised by the content of the article. This is how we make our money and keep people in employment. Our Government has always been very adept at turning its back on questions about the morality of the people it gets into bed with. It’s just a fact of our economic life. Addressing it would lead to some big decisions about the Isle of Man’s economic and political viability. 

The gambling lobby everywhere is powerful, relentless and have gimlet eyes for anybody who challenges them. The families of gambling victims have been begging the UK Govt to toughen the law, put VAT and other taxes on gambling,  introduce hefty transaction charges, stop free bet enticements, prohibit sponsorships and advertising (tobacco companies are no longer able to advertise on TV but e-gambling companies can) etc, etc. Unfortunately, the families' petitions have fallen on deaf ears. Time will tell, but I do hope that the Labour government in Westminster will have balls to stand up to gambling companies, which will prompt the Island to review their rulebook too. As the articles in this thread (posted by Teapot) identified, here the regulators have been granting licenses without fully understanding who the ultimate owners of those companies are. 

[joebean]

4 hours ago, Amadeus said:

Serious question: what industry or industries do you think we should and could attract that aligns with your moral compass?

I don’t offer any moral compass, nor do I seek to. If you have any objection to my description of online gambling as a filthy trade, you probably don’t either.  The point I make is that this Island does well, and has for several decades, by not having any particular moral compass when economic opportunities arise. We should not whine when this fact is brought out into the open. The alternative is a different method of making our money maybe  with consequences for our economy, population and even our constitutional relationship with the UK. I can’t think of an alternative at the moment that would support the current population, government or social dependency we currently finance. 

[Amadeus]

40 minutes ago, joebean said:

I don’t offer any moral compass, nor do I seek to. If you have any objection to my description of online gambling as a filthy trade, you probably don’t either.  The point I make is that this Island does well, and has for several decades, by not having any particular moral compass when economic opportunities arise. We should not whine when this fact is brought out into the open. The alternative is a different method of making our money maybe  with consequences for our economy, population and even our constitutional relationship with the UK. I can’t think of an alternative at the moment that would support the current population, government or social dependency we currently finance. 

I’m not complaining and not denying that the industry has issues. I’m just trying to think of a truly wholesome way to create a functioning capitalist system that can sustain the island’s economy and it’s hard to come up with something. Tourism won’t do it, banking is worse than gambling, so what other ways are there? 

[Banker]

19 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

No the contribution is compulsory.  There's quite a bit a leeway over who the donation(s) go to, but the Gambling Supervision Commission do check.  According to their last available report (2020-21):

As for gambling duty however:

Gambling Duty
Gambling Duty Gambling Duty on the Isle of Man is based on proit, NOT turnover. Duty is paid on either ‘stakes minus winnings’ or ‘retained proit’ depending on the type of gambling activity. With written approval from Customs and Excise, an operator may be authorised to exclude afiliate payments from their duty calculation. The Gambling Duty rates are:

(Their typos)  It doesn't look particularly onerous.

Thanks but it’s still a bit voluntary as to amount contributed, some will be generous & others contribute the minimum they can get away with.

Also the duty payable is ridiculously low, gambling addiction is a massive & growing problem her & across UK & the world & needs taxing more heavily to help pay for the costs of the misery they cause.

[Andy Onchan]

2 hours ago, Amadeus said:

I’m not complaining and not denying that the industry has issues. I’m just trying to think of a truly wholesome way to create a functioning capitalist system that can sustain the island’s economy and it’s hard to come up with something. Tourism won’t do it, banking is worse than gambling, so what other ways are there? 

Tourism is about all that we've got to offer/give. We have the asset (the Island itself), partial infrastructure and transport links. The last two need to be taken out of the "hard to do" tray and get on with improving them to make it worthwhile for visitors to step ashore and to keep returning.

We don't need more residents, we need more visitors and preferably all year round.

[joebean]

4 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

Tourism is about all that we've got to offer/give. We have the asset (the Island itself), partial infrastructure and transport links. The last two need to be taken out of the "hard to do" tray and get on with improving them to make it worthwhile for visitors to step ashore and to keep returning.

We don't need more residents, we need more visitors and preferably all year round.

Yes, but tourism accounts for about 2-3% of GDP currently. We could do much better with it, maybe, but it is never going to contribute anywhere near enough to sustain our economic needs. Amadeus asks what else there is and my answer is I have no idea. The Island finds itself in the situation of having grown in population and relative prosperity as a result of the economic strategy of pursuing the sort of opportunities it has. Gambling is just the latest thing. It’s dirty money, largely, and I am not sure it can be relied upon on the long-term. If you want me to provide answers; I have none. It sort of is what it is. Future generations will have to find their own answers, here or elsewhere. 

[Ringy Rose]

On 4/20/2023 at 5:29 PM, Banker said:

Thanks but it’s still a bit voluntary as to amount contributed, some will be generous & others contribute the minimum they can get away with.

Also the duty payable is ridiculously low, gambling addiction is a massive & growing problem her & across UK & the world & needs taxing more heavily to help pay for the costs of the misery they cause.

We could whack duty up to 30% but all the companies would just go somewhere else. So we can get a small percentage of something, or a high percentage of nothing.

The UK is a different market, but you’ll find the UKGC loses its teeth if/when football sponsorships are banned. The Chinese-facing sites already skirt round most of it with the white label websites. And there’s no way you can block all gambling sites, as the Chinese prove.

Gambling, like prostitution, is as old as the hills and it survives all efforts to ban it. It probably is better to tolerate it and regulate it, to have regulation as a market differentiator and to encourage companies to behave better.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Ringy Rose