woolley Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 29 minutes ago, P.K. said: However in the weeks before the referendum 52% of those who were likely to vote Leave mentioned "immigration" as their most important issue. Read into that what you will... So it's racist now to question the wisdom of hundreds of thousands of immigrants per annum? Pressure on services and housing isn't an issue? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 20 hours ago, P.K. said: Perhaps not. But they know they've been taken for mugs... But have they? All the media is talking about is rubber boats of illegal immigrants, numbering a few tens of thousands a year, which serves for nothing but winding people up. At the same time, legal immigration from mainly outside the EU, numbers hundreds of thousands a year. This is kept rather quiet by comparison, but these people are needed and welcomed, to do the jobs the British cannot be arsed to do. Someone has to pay the taxes to support the cost of benefits Britain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 2 hours ago, P.K. said: We know it was driven in part by racism. Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist but everyone who is a racist did vote for Brexit. Why would they not? Of course, trying to figure out the proportion of who voted what and why is the tricky bit. Especially as it's highly unlikely that anyone would actually admit to being a racist. But face it, Farage splashed around his infamous "Breaking Point" poster for a reason and it wasn't because he wanted to plumb a new low in UK politics - that was just a happy accident. However in the weeks before the referendum 52% of those who were likely to vote Leave mentioned "immigration" as their most important issue. Read into that what you will... Being against unfettered immigration does not make one racist. Is being Polish a different race? French? German? It has nothing to do with race. However, it has everything to do with someone from Poland working in the uk and claiming benefits for his whole family who live in Poland, and have never contributed to uk society. Much higher rates than are paid in Poland. When they got sick, they got free treatment on the NHS. UK pensions, everything, without even living here. Is that racism? No. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it. So stop calling it racism! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, Cambon said: Being against unfettered immigration does not make one racist. Is being Polish a different race? French? German? It has nothing to do with race. However, it has everything to do with someone from Poland working in the uk and claiming benefits for his whole family who live in Poland, and have never contributed to uk society. Much higher rates than are paid in Poland. When they got sick, they got free treatment on the NHS. UK pensions, everything, without even living here. Is that racism? No. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it. So stop calling it racism! I’m not sure how you can get free treatment on the NHS without living here. How would that work. Get a UK doctor flown out to Gdańsk or somewhere.? But now the UK is liberated from the EU it can negotiate reciprocal arrangements should it wish, without being told what it can and can’t do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 35 minutes ago, Cambon said: Being against unfettered immigration does not make one racist. Is being Polish a different race? French? German? It has nothing to do with race. However, it has everything to do with someone from Poland working in the uk and claiming benefits for his whole family who live in Poland, and have never contributed to uk society. Much higher rates than are paid in Poland. When they got sick, they got free treatment on the NHS. UK pensions, everything, without even living here. Is that racism? No. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it. So stop calling it racism! You can be racist against people who are the same ethnicity as you. For example, I despise the french. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, HeliX said: You can be racist against people who are the same ethnicity as you. For example, I despise the french. I am not so keen on the French either, but they are the same race, so it is not racism. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 22 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: I’m not sure how you can get free treatment on the NHS without living here. How would that work. Get a UK doctor flown out to Gdańsk or somewhere.? But now the UK is liberated from the EU it can negotiate reciprocal arrangements should it wish, without being told what it can and can’t do. The other way around. Fly / drive the sick person to uk and take them to hospital. More realist situations were bring pregnant woman to uk to have “British “ baby, for benefit purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, HeliX said: You can be racist against people who are the same ethnicity as you. For example, I despise the french. So had you had a vote in the 2016 referendum in staying in or leaving the EU would you have voted leave because you despise the French? Or if you did have a vote did you vote for leave because you despise the French? I don’t despise the citizens of any EU nations. But I don’t want to be lumped together with them, probably anymore than they want to be lumped together with the UK / (IOM if they’ve heard of it) As I’ve said before “ vive la difference” The differences should be celebrated and we shouldn’t be all tied together by dint of geographical proximity. Let’s work together on matters of mutual concern but not tie ourselves up for some ideological nonsense. The EU consists of 27 different countries. Let them keep their independent identities whilst cooperating with each other by mutual consent. What’s so difficult about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 8 minutes ago, Cambon said: The other way around. Fly / drive the sick person to uk and take them to hospital. More realist situations were bring pregnant woman to uk to have “British “ baby, for benefit purposes. That happens a lot does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 28 minutes ago, Cambon said: I am not so keen on the French either, but they are the same race, so it is not racism. "Racism is prejudice or hostility towards a person's race, colour, language, nationality, or national or ethnic origin" So yes, it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 18 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: So had you had a vote in the 2016 referendum in staying in or leaving the EU would you have voted leave because you despise the French? Or if you did have a vote did you vote for leave because you despise the French? I don’t despise the citizens of any EU nations. But I don’t want to be lumped together with them, probably anymore than they want to be lumped together with the UK / (IOM if they’ve heard of it) As I’ve said before “ vive la difference” The differences should be celebrated and we shouldn’t be all tied together by dint of geographical proximity. Let’s work together on matters of mutual concern but not tie ourselves up for some ideological nonsense. The EU consists of 27 different countries. Let them keep their independent identities whilst cooperating with each other by mutual consent. What’s so difficult about that? Being part of the EU doesn't threaten any country's independent identity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, HeliX said: "Racism is prejudice or hostility towards a person's race, colour, language, nationality, or national or ethnic origin" So yes, it is. Bollocks! It is nothing to do with demonyms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Cambon said: Bollocks! It is nothing to do with demonyms You can make up your own definitions if you want, but it won't change the accepted definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, HeliX said: Being part of the EU doesn't threaten any country's independent identity. I’ve heard some things in my time. But that beats it all. Do you not think that being subject to laws made elsewhere doesn’t threaten a country’s independent identity? That is just laughable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said: I’ve heard some things in my time. But that beats it all. Do you not think that being subject to laws made elsewhere doesn’t threaten a country’s independent identity? That is just laughable. Your national identity is based solely on whether your laws are set by an utter set of dickheads in Whitehall, or if some laws are occasionally co-ordinated by dickheads in Brussels? Seems like a pretty flimsy national identity. Surely it should be based on patriotism or some other shite? Edited December 13, 2023 by HeliX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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