Brexit Penny Dropping?

[Cambon]

11 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

That happens a lot does it?
 

More than you think. Why do you think so many europeans vacated uk when the benefits gravy train stopped? 

[The Voice of Reason]

3 hours ago, manxman1980 said: 

Perhaps we need to be clearer and say that elements of the pro Brexit vote were racist and/or xenophobic.

Or perhaps be clearer still and say it was a cross section of the British public that voted for Brexit without resorting to this hoary old chestnut.

[manxman1980]

2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Or perhaps be clearer still and say it was a cross section of the British public that voted for Brexit without resorting to this hoary old chestnut.

Yes, but a cross section of that cross section did so because of racism and xenophobia 

[P.K.]

3 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Or perhaps be clearer still and say it was a cross section of the British public that voted for Brexit without resorting to this hoary old chestnut.

Let's tell it like it is.

Every racist would have voted for brexit and you share a common goal with them...

[Cambon]

3 hours ago, P.K. said:

Let's tell it like it is.

Every racist would have voted for brexit and you share a common goal with them...

Well, more people voted for brexit than voted for the current government. Or the previous one. And, the only thing wrong with brexit is the current shambles that it the uk government. 

[The Voice of Reason]

7 hours ago, P.K. said:

Let's tell it like it is.

Every racist would have voted for brexit and you share a common goal with them...

I will give you the benefit of the doubt when trying to dechiper what you mean by your second paragraph.

But you really need to stop this nonsense in trying to define the wish for self determination as racism and xenophobia.

Sure there are people on both sides of the Brexit debate with abhorrent views.

As regards motives for voting, you could apply your logic and say for example that a Lincolnshire farmer voted Remain because he wished to perpetuate the supply of cheap labour  from Eastern Europe. He could then continue to pay such workers a pittance, whilst providing them with totally inadequate and unsanitary accommodation.

 There are plenty of documented examples of this.

[La Colombe]

46 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I As regards motives for voting, you could apply your logic and say for example that a Lincolnshire farmer voted Remain because he wished to perpetuate the supply of cheap labour  from Eastern Europe. He could then continue to pay such workers a pittance, whilst providing them with totally inadequate and unsanitary accommodation.

 There are plenty of documented examples of this.

Yeah, leaving the European Union seems like a fucking stupid solution for inadequate and unsanitary accommodation and probably hasn't been a solution for that at all. Apart from that, the cheap Eastern European (and let's be fair, pretty skilled) labour available for such short term seasonal positions was actually one of the great advantages of EU membership. 

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I will give you the benefit of the doubt when trying to dechiper what you mean by your second paragraph.

But you really need to stop this nonsense in trying to define the wish for self determination as racism and xenophobia.

I'm merely, as ever, telling it like it is.

In the run up to the referendum, no doubt encouraged by Farage's infamous "Breaking Point" poster, of those intending to vote Leave the majority cited "immigration" as their major driver...

Edited December 14, 2023 by P.K.

[The Voice of Reason]

54 minutes ago, P.K. said:

I'm merely, as ever, telling it like it is.

In the run up to the referendum, no doubt encouraged by Farage's infamous "Breaking Point" poster, of those intending to vote remain the majority cited "immigration" as their major driver...

Immigration and EU Expansion

A Lord Ashcroft referendum day poll of over 10,000 voters found that one-third of the voters said their main reason for voting leave was that it offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration.

So not quite the majority you claim then. Your not telling it like it is,as ever.

As I said previously I was repulsed as anyone by that “ Breaking Point” poster

But never mind that, “ immigration “ as you put it in quotation  marks is a legitimate subject for discussion as it is in every country in the world.  It impacts on a country, and that can be in a positive way or less so.

For my part I have seen the benefits that immigration has given us, be that in terms of food, art, culture, benefits to the economy etc. 

I’ve personally not experienced any downside to it. But that’s not to say that there isn’t any if there are no controls ( and that’s not being racist)

And if as I believe is right, the UK should welcome people in it should be from all over the world not just those who are our geographic neighbours. Why discriminate?

Indeed it could ( should?) be argued that those who come from cultures more different and diverse from our own will better enrich our lives.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by The Voice of Reason
Addition to second para

[The Voice of Reason]

33 minutes ago, La Colombe said:

Apart from that, the cheap Eastern European (and let's be fair, pretty skilled) labour available for such short term seasonal positions was actually one of the great advantages of EU membership. 

Maybe a great advantage for the UK, not so much for the Eastern Europeans performing back breaking work for a pittance.

[La Colombe]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Maybe a great advantage for the UK, not so much for the Eastern Europeans performing back breaking work for a pittance.

Was it a pittance? How much did they earn? I've got no idea. 

[P.K.]

13 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Immigration and EU Expansion

A Lord Ashcroft referendum day poll of over 10,000 voters found that one-third of the voters said their main reason for voting leave was that it offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration.

So not quite the majority you claim then. Your not telling it like it is,as ever.

As I said previously I was repulsed as anyone by that “ Breaking Point” poster

But never mind that, “ immigration “ as you put it in quotation  marks is a legitimate subject for discussion as it is in every country in the world.  It impacts on a country, and that can be in a positive way or less so.

For my part I have seen the benefits that immigration has given us, be that in terms of food, art, culture, benefits to the economy etc. 

I’ve personally not experienced any downside to it. But that’s not to say that there isn’t any if there are no controls ( and that’s not being racist)

And if as I believe is right, the UK should welcome people in it should be from all over the world not just those who are our geographic neighbours. Why discriminate?

Indeed it could ( should?) be argued that those who come from cultures more different and diverse from our own will better enrich our lives.

Thick or what?

We never lost control of our borders in the first place!

That was just another brexiteer lie...

[woolley]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

We never lost control of our borders in the first place!

Never heard of freedom of movement then? It's one of the four fundamental freedoms within the EU. Member states have no jurisdiction. Remember Cameron piddling around with his lamentable "emergency brake" and the EU laughing at him? Short memories.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/04/revealed-tax-credit-data-exposes-limits-of-camerons-emergency-brake

[Non-Believer]

But the immigrants still arrive, in record numbers now and we appear powerless to stop them, short of trying to export some of them to Rwanda.

In the meanwhile we have lost the benefits of freedom of movement and are now hamstrung with all the red tape that now ensues at individual, business and national levels.

Lose, lose in my book.

[P.K.]

10 minutes ago, woolley said:

Never heard of freedom of movement then? It's one of the four fundamental freedoms within the EU. Member states have no jurisdiction. Remember Cameron piddling around with his lamentable "emergency brake" and the EU laughing at him? Short memories.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/04/revealed-tax-credit-data-exposes-limits-of-camerons-emergency-brake

How many times do I have to point out to the Brexit faithful that EU migrants contributed more £ to UK PLC than any other group. So they had more right to use Public Services than anyone else including the indigenous population.

I also pointed out, years ago now, that your totally stupid and completely unnecessary Brexit helped EU migrants on their way to be replaced by non-EU migrants - thousands and thousands of them. Unlike EU migrants who have the whole of the rest of the EU to settle and work in with a minimum of fuss (a benefit no longer available to us) these people bring their dependants over, want to settle permanently, bring over the extended family etc etc. And there's already an outcry about it.

I call that a massive own goal by the racist brexiteers and a good laugh for the rest of us...!