Brexit Penny Dropping?

[manxman1980]

27 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Can we not have an equal and fair society across the world? 

Wouldn't that be fantastic?  The problem is that certain people value sovereignty and nationalism above all else.  If the UK could not remain in the EU because the population feared being swallowed by a United States of Europe how are you going to persuade countries like Russia, China, North Korea & the USA that we should standardise a minimum set of rights across the world?

We are still bogged down in a world where people are starting wars or killing others based on religion and a handful of ancient stories based down from generation to generation.  How do you persuade that lot that the other religious groups have just as many rights as they do?  How do you convince extremists of any ilk that the people they detest are worthy of the same rights and freedoms as they are.

[Albert Tatlock]

44 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Can we not have an equal and fair society across the world? 

In Star Trek, there's no money and no poverty...yet anyone in a red shirt still gets killed.

Evolution always trounces politics.

[woolley]

16 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Wouldn't that be fantastic?  The problem is that certain people value sovereignty and nationalism above all else.  If the UK could not remain in the EU because the population feared being swallowed by a United States of Europe how are you going to persuade countries like Russia, China, North Korea & the USA that we should standardise a minimum set of rights across the world?

We are still bogged down in a world where people are starting wars or killing others based on religion and a handful of ancient stories based down from generation to generation.  How do you persuade that lot that the other religious groups have just as many rights as they do?  How do you convince extremists of any ilk that the people they detest are worthy of the same rights and freedoms as they are.

You don't and you never will. It's completely against human nature.

[Ringy Rose]

11 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

How do you convince extremists of any ilk that the people they detest are worthy of the same rights and freedoms as they are.

Doesn’t even need to be at that level.

Whenever there’s a law guaranteeing basic standards, there’s a spiv who’ll be there cutting corners to make a quick buck. Whether that’s at a company level or a country level doesn’t matter.

Most big Western companies insist in their contracts that slave labour shouldn’t be used. So their Chinese and Bangladeshi suppliers just lie about their labour. Such is life.

[woolley]

3 hours ago, Ringy Rose said:

Doesn’t even need to be at that level.

Whenever there’s a law guaranteeing basic standards, there’s a spiv who’ll be there cutting corners to make a quick buck. Whether that’s at a company level or a country level doesn’t matter.

Most big Western companies insist in their contracts that slave labour shouldn’t be used. So their Chinese and Bangladeshi suppliers just lie about their labour. Such is life.

Of course. "Don't use slave labour, but if you can't supply a tee shirt for 40p you'll lose the contract."

[La Colombe]

 

[The Voice of Reason]

12 minutes ago, La Colombe said:

 

It’s the EU that are introducing these rules. Their choice.
Why blame Brexit?

[John Wright]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

It’s the EU that are introducing these rules. Their choice.
Why blame Brexit?

Because they were planned and agreed pre Brexit to apply to third countries, and wouldn’t have applied to UK passport holders if Brexit hadn’t taken place. UK chose to become a third country through the act of Brexit.

[The Voice of Reason]

5 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Because they were planned and agreed pre Brexit to apply to third countries, and wouldn’t have applied to UK passport holders if Brexit hadn’t taken place. UK chose to become a third country through the act of Brexit.

Planned by the EU.

The UK didn’t “ choose to become a third country “. The EU unilaterally deemed it as such as a consequence for the UK daring to exercise their democratic right to leave.

A form  of blackmail if you will, which the UK wasn’t having.

[John Wright]

4 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Planned by the EU.

The UK didn’t “ choose to become a third country “. The EU unilaterally deemed it as such as a consequence for the UK daring to exercise their democratic right to leave.

A form  of blackmail if you will, which the UK wasn’t having.

No. There are EU members and third countries. The UK, for better or ill chose to stop being an EU member. That automatically made it a third country.

It’s true that some brexiteers, quite irrationally, expected the EU to establish a new status solely for a UK outside the EU. That was never going to happen.

No blackmail. Just the inevitable consequence of the UK’s choice.

[The Voice of Reason]

32 minutes ago, John Wright said:

No. There are EU members and third countries. The UK, for better or ill chose to stop being an EU member.

For better.

[Non-Believer]

46 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

For better.

What part of your, "For better" covers "Disadvantaged"? Name one tangible promised benefit, economic or otherwise that the average Briton has had conferred upon them since Brexit? To include immigration reductions?

Now the prospect of fingerprints and facial scans for British citizens wishing to take their holidays in the EU bloc? Whilst EU citizens enjoy freedom of movement without such demeaning strictures?

We aren't third country so much as fast becoming third world country.

[The Voice of Reason]

2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

 

Now the prospect of fingerprints and facial scans for British citizens wishing to take their holidays in the EU bloc? Whilst EU citizens enjoy freedom of movement without such demeaning strictures?

We aren't third country so much as fast becoming third world country.

Upon visiting the US recently I had to provide fingerprints and had my face scanned. The US has decided it is a security measure as presumably has the EU. I just accepted it as everyone else does.

So whilst it may be a pain in the backside to have to go through these procedures which we never had to in the last forty years we have to respect them. We can’t cling to the past, things change. If you think it’s worth giving up sovereignty to shave a few minutes off entering EU countries just because they are next door then shame on you.

The EU will decide what measures they put in place for entry of non EU nationals. What’s the procedure for US , Canadians, Bolivians Australians etc entering the EU.? They are third countries like the UK now is. Are the entry requirements “ demeaning “ for them?

We have left the EU so we have to abide by whatever strictures they impose. They could make exceptions I guess but that’s up to them.

[Non-Believer]

4 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Upon visiting the US recently I had to provide fingerprints and had my face scanned. The US has decided it is a security measure as presumably has the EU. I just accepted it as everyone else does.

So whilst it may be a pain in the backside to have to go through these procedures which we never had to in the last forty years we have to respect them. We can’t cling to the past, things change. If you think it’s worth giving up sovereignty to shave a few minutes off entering EU countries just because they are next door then shame on you.

The EU will decide what measures they put in place for entry of non EU nationals. What’s the procedure for US , Canadians, Bolivians Australians etc entering the EU.? They are third countries like the UK now is. Are the entry requirements “ demeaning “ for them?

We have left the EU so we have to abide by whatever strictures they impose. They could make exceptions I guess but that’s up to them.

You are obtusely missing the point as usual. Pre-Brexit, we didn't or wouldn't have to go through this proposed, demeaning rigmarole.

The post-9/11-paranoid US (and its revenue-raising ESTA requirements that I am also familiar with) is 3000 miles away. The EU that we share a continental shelf with is 22 miles at its closest point. There should be no requirement to go through such processes with such a close neighbour and it is born of nothing more than the insular xenophobia that is such a feature of Brexit.

Now as previously requested, please list one or more tangible, promised benefits that an average Briton has had conferred upon them by Brexit?

[The Voice of Reason]

9 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

The EU that we share a continental shelf with is 22 miles at its closest point. There should be no requirement to go through such processes with such a close neighbour and it is born of nothing more than the insular xenophobia that is such a feature of Brexit.

 

Did you miss this from my previous post? 

If you think it’s worth giving up sovereignty to shave a few minutes off entering EU countries just because they are next door then shame on you.