woolley Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 @manxman1980 Exactly! And that's why I mostly gave up the struggle. Like pissing into the wind. It'll be what we make it, but at least it will be what WE make it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 18 hours ago, manxman1980 said: @The Voice of Reason Thatcher was also democratically elected as a MP and led her party to several democratic election victories. And when she won those election victories democratically, did people say “ oh she only won because she lied, made false representations and people didn’t know what they were voting for”. No, she won fair and square ( much as it pains me to say it) so why can’t Remainers show the same respect to the result of the 2016 Brexit referendum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 6 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: And when she won those election victories democratically, did people say “ oh she only won because she lied, made false representations and people didn’t know what they were voting for”. No, she won fair and square ( much as it pains me to say it) so why can’t Remainers show the same respect to the result of the 2016 Brexit referendum? Did people know they were voting for the Poll Tax or closure of coal mines? I guess not but would need to check archived media reports from the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 13 hours ago, manxman1980 said: Did people know they were voting for the Poll Tax or closure of coal mines? I guess not but would need to check archived media reports from the time. Community Charge, please!!! 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, woolley said: Community Charge, please!!! 🤣 Well, whatever it was called, did people know that had voted for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, manxman1980 said: Well, whatever it was called, did people know that had voted for it? Don't be silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 12 minutes ago, woolley said: Don't be silly. Genuine question as @The Voice of Reason seems to believe that voters did. I wasn't old enough to be paying much attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 16 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Genuine question as @The Voice of Reason seems to believe that voters did. I wasn't old enough to be paying much attention. Like asking if the Manx voted for the toilet tax. In fact, they tested out the "Community Charge" on the Scots first, and they certainly didn't vote for it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 16 minutes ago, woolley said: Like asking if the Manx voted for the toilet tax. In fact, they tested out the "Community Charge" on the Scots first, and they certainly didn't vote for it! I had a feeling that was the answer. So it is fair to say that people voting for a Conservative Government under Thatcher may not have been aware off what they were voting for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 8 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I had a feeling that was the answer. So it is fair to say that people voting for a Conservative Government under Thatcher may not have been aware off what they were voting for. Of course, but you never truly know what you're voting for because things can be blown way off course by events at any moment, and then policy is formulated that was never envisaged at the time of the manifesto. Then there are the things they sneak in that they didn't want you to know about anyway, but the Community Charge wasn't one of those. It featured in the Conservative 1987 manifesto as it happens. The reason I said the Scots didn't vote for it was, of course, that they didn't vote for the Tories. But then they didn't vote for Brexit either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_(Great_Britain) The poll tax probably did the Scots Nats more good than any other policy decision in the lead up to the re-establishment of the Scottish Parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 hours ago, manxman1980 said: Genuine question as @The Voice of Reason seems to believe that voters did. Did I? I don’t remember that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 50 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Did I? I don’t remember that. See below... On 1/3/2024 at 8:49 PM, The Voice of Reason said: And when she won those election victories democratically, did people say “ oh she only won because she lied, made false representations and people didn’t know what they were voting for”. No, she won fair and square ( much as it pains me to say it) so why can’t Remainers show the same respect to the result of the 2016 Brexit referendum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 4 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: See below... I fail to see how that proves your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 On 1/3/2024 at 12:55 PM, woolley said: @manxman1980 Exactly! And that's why I mostly gave up the struggle. Like pissing into the wind. It'll be what we make it, but at least it will be what WE make it. Thanks to Brexit a proper Englishman can now dump proper English shit into a proper English river. (Well, the companies are mostly foreign owned, but you get the point). The passports are navy blue again (I know that decision could have been taken without losing 4% of the economy, but nevermind), and now, finally, wine can theoretically be sold in 568ml bottles. (Can't remember that on the side of a bus, maybe it was one of Cameron's great demands?), lots of the skilled forrins have left (so we save money on having things like hospitals actually working), we get to queue longer at airports, keep bureaucrats and red tape producers in business, fatten the profits of roam charging phone companies, and the South of England (and possibly Rwanda) gets the benefit of many, many more refugees. OK, the trade deal situation is laughable, Northern Ireland is no longer a full member of the UK, and Woolley's tungsten bulbs haven't gone back into production — but it's only eight years since the referendum, it's bound to get better in a half-century or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Forgot to mention the key brexit benefit of 2020 — not being part of EU emergency PPE procurement. Proper British week old start-ups got to buy proper knock-off Chinese masks and gowns for the wonderful £350M a week better-off NHS. God Save the King. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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