Non-Believer Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 That's one minor spat between two EU countries, which goes on all the time . Are you seriously trying to suggest that this is any sort of justification for the "self-imposed" crippling and degradation of the UK's economy for years to come? You need to stick to advocating the return of smoking in enclosed public areas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: This is just one of the reasons that illustrates why the UK is best off out of the EU “Strained relations between Scholz and Macron threaten to derail EU action against Houthis Diplomats fear situation may stymie Berlin’s progress in convincing Paris to back expansion of French-led EU anti-piracy mission Tensions between Olaf Scholz and Emmanuel Macron threaten to derail EU action to tackle the Houthi threat in the Red Sea, diplomats have warned. Relations between the German chancellor and the French president are strained over issues including energy subsidies, Chinese electric car imports, defence policy and Ukraine. On Monday, Mr Scholz warned EU member states they were not sending enough military aid to Kyiv in a thinly veiled swipe at Mr Macron, whose support lags far behind Berlin’s. The Franco-German “engine” has long been the EU’s most influential relationship when it comes to policy-making in Brussels. Diplomats fear the strained relationship may stymie Berlin’s progress in convincing Paris to back the expansion of a French-led EU anti-piracy mission in the Straits of Hormuz to the Red Sea. One EU diplomat said: “The relationship isn’t really working at the moment. The Germans think the French are not doing enough on Ukraine, despite talking a big game, and they are right.” @The Voice of Reason How does more anti-EU nonsense from the very right-wing Telegraph "illustrate" anything other than the agenda of the owner? You need a serious reality check... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 21 hours ago, P.K. said: @The Voice of Reason How does more anti-EU nonsense from the very right-wing Telegraph "illustrate" anything other than the agenda of the owner? You need a serious reality check... It’s just a report about the rift between Germany and France in the context of the EU response. It’s been similarly reported in other newspapers and publications which are not right wing with no such perceived agenda Seems you would rather not engage in honest discussion when it doesn’t suit you, by dissing the source of the news rather than the indisputable content itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 22 hours ago, Non-Believer said: That's one minor spat between two EU countries, which goes on all the time . Are you seriously trying to suggest that this is any sort of justification for the "self-imposed" crippling and degradation of the UK's economy for years to come? You need to stick to advocating the return of smoking in enclosed public areas. I can do both 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said: It’s just a report about the rift between Germany and France in the context of the EU response. It’s been similarly reported in other newspapers and publications which are not right wing with no such perceived agenda Seems you would rather not engage in honest discussion when it doesn’t suit you, by dissing the source of the news rather than the indisputable content itself. What other publications...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 How come a mere trading bloc has to take a position on a foreign war? Odd isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 5 hours ago, woolley said: How come a mere trading bloc has to take a position on a foreign war? Odd isn't it? They are also both NATO member Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 9 hours ago, P.K. said: What other publications...? The Guardian for example. France and Germany’s relationship is at the heart of the EU. Why has it gone sour? Shahin Vallée I was one of the experts tasked by the two countries to consider Europe’s future. But from energy to defence, tensions are growing A close relationship between France and Germany has long been regarded as postwar Europe’s engine, underpinning the foundation of the EU, the single currency and much more. But the engine has been spluttering, and over the past two years tensions and disagreements have piled up. This is ironic because, on paper at least, French and German views on Europe have never been closer. Emmanuel Macron is arguably the most pro-European French president in a generation, and Olaf Scholz’s coalition has vowed to turn the EU into a federal state, in sharp contrast to the view that dominated in the Merkel years. And yet on critical areas of cooperation for Europe, France and Germany couldn’t be further apart, which is a serious risk for Europe at a time of great geopolitical peril. While the war in Ukraine – and Scholz’s bold call in February 2022 for a Zeitenwende (turning point) and an end to Germany’s traditionally reticent foreign policy – should have paved the way for a real leap in integrated European defence, the reality is that nothing meaningful has been done. In fact, many Franco-German defence cooperation projects have gone backwards. Despite a great deal of singing from the same hymn sheet in response to the war in Ukraine (powerful sanctions and effective use of joint EU mechanisms to support Kyiv militarily and financially), progress towards real European strategic autonomy is limited – and this despite a potentially fateful US election looming and the geopolitical crises now encircling Europe. The growing distrust is a matter of both style and substance. Germany has come to despise Macron’s permanent grandstanding, for example. But Germany itself is also slowly but surely turning inward and becoming more nationalistic. A project between France and Germany for a next-generation combat aircraft critical for the protection of Europe’s skies is slowly and quietly fizzling out. First, because Germany continues to order F-35 fighter jets from the US, but more importantly because – as the Times reported – it could potentially abandon the project altogether and join the UK’s Tempest programme alongside Italy and Japan. This would be a terrible blow for France, akin to Australia’s cancelling of its submarine programme with France in favour of the trilateral Aukus project. , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 8 hours ago, woolley said: How come a mere trading bloc has to take a position on a foreign war? Odd isn't it? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 24 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: The Guardian for example. That's an opinion piece from last November by a German researcher. Dear me, anything to try and keep the brexit fantasy alive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 10 hours ago, manxman1980 said: They are also both NATO member Indeed. So the EU doesn't need to take a position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 7 hours ago, P.K. said: That's an opinion piece from last November by a German researcher. Dear me, anything to try and keep the brexit fantasy alive... Or maybe anything to keep the argument alive 7 years later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/13/2024 at 11:06 PM, Non-Believer said: crippling and degradation of the UK's economy Hyperbole. It really hasn't happened, except to the extent caused globally by the events we are all familiar with this decade - pestilence and war. Life goes on as does trade and commerce. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 53 minutes ago, woolley said: Or maybe anything to keep the argument alive 7 years later. The argument was lost in 2016. Well, not lost exactly but rather simple lies carried the day as they're a lot easier to understand than a nuanced truth. However I'm convinced that the UK can never move forward from brexit until everyone understands what a massive con trick it all was. As evidenced by the fact that the last card the brexiteers have left to play is the much hackneyed "sovereignty" which was never a problem in over 40 years of membership... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, P.K. said: The argument was lost in 2016. Well, not lost exactly but rather simple lies carried the day as they're a lot easier to understand than a nuanced truth. However I'm convinced that the UK can never move forward from brexit until everyone understands what a massive con trick it all was. As evidenced by the fact that the last card the brexiteers have left to play is the much hackneyed "sovereignty" which was never a problem in over 40 years of membership... I think you should get an OBE for services to repetition in this thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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