Brexit Penny Dropping?

[woolley]

35 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Yes I would,  but I accept it’s not going to happen. 

We lived with pounds, shilling and pence for decades, if not centuries,  quite happily.

It wasn’t problematic. Children learnt the way it worked at school as they do now with decimal currency.
 

Not much costs less than a quid nowadays anyway. Funny to think that the Spanish peseta, worth less than a euro cent, was itself divided into a hundred centimos until the 1960s. Better stick to gold.

[manxman1980]

7 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Yes I would,  but I accept it’s not going to happen. 

We lived with pounds, shilling and pence for decades, if not centuries,  quite happily.

It wasn’t problematic. Children learnt the way it worked at school as they do now with decimal currency.
 

Thank goodness there is an election on the horizon. 

I would not put it past a Government which has made noises about imperial measures and pints of wine, and which contains Jacob Rees-Mogg, to actually introduce this as a policy. 

[P.K.]

8 hours ago, woolley said:

Not much costs less than a quid nowadays anyway. Funny to think that the Spanish peseta, worth less than a euro cent, was itself divided into a hundred centimos until the 1960s. Better stick to gold.

The only currency worth having is the Dong currently trading at 1 Dng = £0.000032

OK, it's not worth much but it has the best name...

[Freggyragh]

I wonder how Brexiters are going to spin the collapse of the British steel industry away from Brexit. 37% of British steel is exported to the EU, but as a third country it will be subject to the EU coming carbon tax from 2026), which will make sales to the EU just about unviable. Brexit ideologues have so far refused to reach any agreement that looks like 'convergence' with the EU's net zero policy, so Britain once again we find can't have nice things, like a steel industry. 

[Non-Believer]

21 minutes ago, Freggyragh said:

I wonder how Brexiters are going to spin the collapse of the British steel industry away from Brexit. 37% of British steel is exported to the EU, but as a third country it will be subject to the EU coming carbon tax from 2026), which will make sales to the EU just about unviable. Brexit ideologues have so far refused to reach any agreement that looks like 'convergence' with the EU's net zero policy, so Britain once again we find can't have nice things, like a steel industry. 

If Tata push through the closures announced in the past couple of days, Britain won't have much of a steel industry left.

[woolley]

@Freggyragh Do give over. This hardly warrants a response, but I refer you to any graph of UK steel production from 1973 to date. A steady decline throughout our EU membership, and by the time of Brexit it was down to barely a rump of the rump. I don't blame the EU for this, incidentally. A lack of investment coupled with a tax system that doesn't encourage it, and the willingness to be seduced by unrealistically cheap (subsidised) imports. Even the German steel industry is currently struggling due to sky high energy costs and cheap imports.

[manxman1980]

6 minutes ago, woolley said:

@Freggyragh Do give over. This hardly warrants a response, but I refer you to any graph of UK steel production from 1973 to date. A steady decline throughout our EU membership, and by the time of Brexit it was down to barely a rump of the rump. I don't blame the EU for this, incidentally. A lack of investment coupled with a tax system that doesn't encourage it, and the willingness to be seduced by unrealistically cheap (subsidised) imports. Even the German steel industry is currently struggling due to sky high energy costs and cheap imports.

I tend to agree with you on this point as I have worked closely with the UK steel industry in the past.

The UK steel industry imports virtually every raw material required which is obviously expensive and which drives up the cost compared to importing steel from other countries.  Cheap imported steel from China is a contributing factor but even European produced steel is more cost effective.

You are right about the lack of investment in steel plants as well.  That is not just on TATA Steel but they certainly have not spent much money.  It goes all the way back to the days of British Steel.

The real damage caused by Brexit in relation to the industry was the loss of freedom of movement and the increased paperwork and administration for importing and exporting products. 

The UK has a skills shortage for mechanical engineers.  Brexit almost instantly made it much harder to bring in skilled workers from the EU to undertake project work.  The skills shortage can be traced to the UK preference for electing Conservative Governments which fail to do anything about education and apprenticeships.  The decision to make it hard, and expensive, for companies to bring in skilled labour is the fault of the Brexiteers who seem to think that bringing in people from outside the EU is somehow easier or better.

So, yes, I agree woolley that the UK Steel Industry has been doomed for years.  Brexit has potentially brought its demise that much nearer. 

 

 

[woolley]

@manxman1980 Thanks. (Nearly). 😎

[manxman1980]

14 minutes ago, woolley said:

@manxman1980 Thanks. (Nearly). 😎

Despite what some think I am not a some sort of zealot blaming every woe on Brexit.  The UK Government, especially the blue variety, has a considerable amount of responsibility for the state of the UK but instead of doing anything about it they blamed the EU as it suited their own political needs.

I don't think anything will save the UK steel industry in the long term, however, it's collapse will pose an interesting question.  If the UK can no longer produce steel for it's own domestic use would it still be classed as a powerful nation?  Imagine having to rely on foreign sources for such a historically important material...

 

(NB.  A significant chunk of the UK steel industry is already controlled by overseas companies)

[woolley]

9 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Despite what some think I am not a some sort of zealot blaming every woe on Brexit.  The UK Government, especially the blue variety, has a considerable amount of responsibility for the state of the UK but instead of doing anything about it they blamed the EU as it suited their own political needs.

I don't think anything will save the UK steel industry in the long term, however, it's collapse will pose an interesting question.  If the UK can no longer produce steel for it's own domestic use would it still be classed as a powerful nation?  Imagine having to rely on foreign sources for such a historically important material...

 

(NB.  A significant chunk of the UK steel industry is already controlled by overseas companies)

Don't get me started on what is wrong with UK government policy on industrial strategy (i.e there isn't one). I haven't got all week.

Governments of both persuasions have neglected manufacturing industry like the Isle of Man has neglected everything but finance. More interested in blowing their own trumpet about leading the world in reducing emissions. Yes, you will reduce emissions if you import everything instead of making it.

[manxman1980]

19 minutes ago, woolley said:

Don't get me started on what is wrong with UK government policy on industrial strategy (i.e there isn't one). I haven't got all week.

Governments of both persuasions have neglected manufacturing industry like the Isle of Man has neglected everything but finance. More interested in blowing their own trumpet about leading the world in reducing emissions. Yes, you will reduce emissions if you import everything instead of making it.

I disagree on the reducing emissions point.  We, everyone, should be seeking to reduce harmful emissions and find less polluting methods of production but as we have noted the UK steel industry never got the investment needed in a timely enough manner to allow it to move away from its traditional blast furnaces.  

I would also point out that importing everything does not stop emissions. It simply moves them elsewhere and potentially increases them. 

The Conservative Governments have probably been the most culpable.  They have after all been in the power longer than a Labour Government and the people who work in manufacturing tend not to be Tory voters so they really don't give a sh*t about them unless you can persuade them to lend votes based on "othering" and fear.

[Freggyragh]

Britain needs a steel industry — not just because the tories promised 'levelling up' for the regions that produce and an infrastructure & building boom, but also because it is crucial to defence and soon Britain will be the only G20 country without one.

Trump got the ball rolling by slapping tariffs on imports. The EU responded by putting tariffs on imports according to the carbon costs of production — as a third country subject to tariffs Britain just cannot compete on the world market — well, not without new green tech, but they've negotiated themselves out of the two biggest markets that might have offered a safety-net during transition. So brexiters are happy just to write off the British steel industry as a loss that was just bound to happen, nothing to do with having the worst trading position in the world this side of Serbia. Right. 

[Freggyragh]

Oh, and there's mote brexit misery coming soon:

 

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, Freggyragh said:

Oh, and there's mote brexit misery coming soon:

 

 

Edited January 19 by The Voice of Reason

[The Voice of Reason]

5 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Freggyragh said:

Oh, and there's mote brexit misery coming soon:

 

We’re all doomed, All doomed I tell you.

Especially like me if you’re not keen on turnips.

Life as we know it will come to a complete stop.

Edited January 19 by The Voice of Reason