P.K. Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 15 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Here’s numbers for you to hang on. Those voting for the UK to remain in the EU 48% Those voting for the UK to leave the EU 52% Nothing anecdotal about that. The referendum was "advisory". Nothing anecdotal about that either... You claim you're a Guardian reader so how did you miss this...? "The Home Office announced the return of the blue British passport to a chorus of approval from Brexiter newspapers and politicians. The irony is that the UK could have had a blue passport while an EU member. EU member state Croatia currently has a blue passport, after all. In any case – the “iconic” blue passport was imposed from abroad back in 1920 – thanks to the the League of Nations. "The EU never mandated burgundy passports: it simply produced a standard format that many member states chose to use for the sake of convenience." Just more brexiteer bolox... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said: Are you sure about that? I don’t remember being given a choice. I renewed my passport during the period of the UK membership of the EU. The new one came back in the burgundy colour with “ European Union “ writ large on it, You personally could not choose but the UK Government could have chosen to have a different colour as per @P.K. post above. I do hope you are still enjoying your new French made passport though. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Currency rates do fluctuate, but they fluctuate according factors such as interest rates, levels of inward investment, money supply, inflation, balance of trade, and investor confidence. When the Pound was at €1.57 in 2015 the UK base rate was 3.5%, while the ECB's was 0.5%. When the pound was even stronger in 2000 the UK rate was 6%, while the ECB's was 4.2%. The difference now is that the UK's base interest rate is higher than the ECB's, but the pound has mot recovered, maybe because UK inflation is higher. The value of your currency is a poor gauge of the state of your economy — the chancellor may want a weaker pound as a means of stimulating exports. Investing in currencies is fun, but unpredictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 5 hours ago, P.K. said: The thing is the figures tell a story that can't be disputed. Indeed, but it isn't the story you attempted to portray. I gave you additional figures to complete the picture, and in so doing I demolished your fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Freggyragh said: Currency rates do fluctuate, but they fluctuate according factors such as interest rates, levels of inward investment, money supply, inflation, balance of trade, and investor confidence. When the Pound was at €1.57 in 2015 the UK base rate was 3.5%, while the ECB's was 0.5%. When the pound was even stronger in 2000 the UK rate was 6%, while the ECB's was 4.2%. The difference now is that the UK's base interest rate is higher than the ECB's, but the pound has mot recovered, maybe because UK inflation is higher. The value of your currency is a poor gauge of the state of your economy — the chancellor may want a weaker pound as a means of stimulating exports. Investing in currencies is fun, but unpredictable. Indeed it is, but @P.K. chose to use it for the purpose, and I responded on that basis. The pound was not €1.57 in 2015. It hasn't seen such a level since 2002. Base rate 3.5% in 2015? I wish I'd been invested where you were. For the rest of us it was 0.5%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) I stand corrected — except that the point is the same, which is also the point you make. Exchange rates are not reliable indicators of economic performance. Edited January 24 by Freggyragh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 11 hours ago, manxman1980 said: I do hope you are still enjoying your new French made passport though. 🤣 Yes thank you it’s a lot smarter. I am also still enjoying my Danish made audio system and my Belgian made chocolates, together with any number of my other possessions produced or manufactured in EU member states. 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: Yes thank you it’s a lot smarter. I am also still enjoying my Danish made audio system and my Belgian made chocolates, together with any number of my other possessions produced or manufactured in EU member states. 🤣 Good for you 🙂 I just don't see why having a blue passport required the UK to leave the EU when the UK Government could have change the colour any time they wanted. Hopefully, you don't find any sudden increases in cost for your other goods and produce manufactured in the EU as a result of additional red tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 47 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Good for you 🙂 I just don't see why having a blue passport required the UK to leave the EU when the UK Government could have change the colour any time they wanted. Who knows why the UK Government didn’t change the colour of the passport, or more tellingly remove the words “ European Union” from it, which I believe from my research was also optional. Probably, I would imagine because the UK Government was more in thrall to the EU than the electorate was ( as evidenced by the vote). It’s hardly a secret that the Government of the day were hoping for( and expecting) a “Remain” majority. Yes it’s nice to have the blue/ black passport back, but like I mentioned earlier as with using the terms “ Cornish Clotted Cream” and “ Scotch Whisky” in Australia these are all trivial issues in the greater context of Brexit and its implications. Edited January 24 by The Voice of Reason 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: It’s hardly a secret that the Government of the day were hoping for( and expecting) a “Remain” majority. If you mean the Tory Government then they were split on Europe. It was an attempt by Cameron to unite the Tory party and fend off some MPs joining UKIP that led to the referendum. The Tory party has still not recovered and lurches from one crisis to another. Hopefully the next general election will consign the whole party to the history books. If you mean Parliament as a whole then there was probably more remainers than leavers but it certainly was not all pro EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 7 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: Yes thank you it’s a lot smarter. I am also still enjoying my Danish made audio system and my Belgian made chocolates, together with any number of my other possessions produced or manufactured in EU member states. 🤣 Yes. There's this misapprehension that if you don't support the EU, you don't like or appreciate Europe itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 hours ago, manxman1980 said: Good for you 🙂 I just don't see why having a blue passport required the UK to leave the EU when the UK Government could have change the colour any time they wanted. Hopefully, you don't find any sudden increases in cost for your other goods and produce manufactured in the EU as a result of additional red tape. Spectacularly misses the point, and again simplifies things to kindergarten level. The colour isn't an issue. They could have made it sky blue and pink. It doesn't matter. It's the fact that it is not an EU passport that's important. Inflation is common to most of the developed world for the reasons we are all familiar with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 19 hours ago, P.K. said: The referendum was "advisory". And sage advice it was too. Can you imagine the kerfuffle had it been ignored? (You won't make me late tonight, buggerlugs. I have a stopwatch on this.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 13 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: If you mean the Tory Government then they were split on Europe. It was an attempt by Cameron to unite the Tory party and fend off some MPs joining UKIP that led to the referendum. The Tory party has still not recovered and lurches from one crisis to another. Hopefully the next general election will consign the whole party to the history books. If you mean Parliament as a whole then there was probably more remainers than leavers but it certainly was not all pro EU. If it is supposed to represent the population with a 52/48 split, then that's exactly what you would expect. A split. The problem was the 2017 Parliament where the Remainers wouldn't accept the result and went rogue trying to frustrate the expressed will of the voters, aided and abetted by the hideous Bercow. They wasted so much time just bringing Parliament into disrepute. Some of them, like Soubry and Umunna formed new parties, and all of them got their comeuppance and lost their seats in the 2019 poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 17 hours ago, woolley said: Indeed, but it isn't the story you attempted to portray. I gave you additional figures to complete the picture, and in so doing I demolished your fantasy. That's not my ending up in Big Helga's Flophouse fantasy is it? Because that would be harsh...! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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