manxman1980 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, woolley said: Spectacularly misses the point, and again simplifies things to kindergarten level. The colour isn't an issue. They could have made it sky blue and pink. It doesn't matter. It's the fact that it is not an EU passport that's important. Inflation is common to most of the developed world for the reasons we are all familiar with. It wasn't me who brought up the colour of passports as a brexit benefit. That was @The Voice of Reason. I simply responded to it. I also disagree that protection for regionally produced goods is trivial. If place of origin is so trivial why does it matter what it says on a passport? Or for that matter why does nationality matter? 1 hour ago, woolley said: If it is supposed to represent the population with a 52/48 split, then that's exactly what you would expect. A split. The problem was the 2017 Parliament where the Remainers wouldn't accept the result and went rogue trying to frustrate the expressed will of the voters, aided and abetted by the hideous Bercow. They wasted so much time just bringing Parliament into disrepute. Some of them, like Soubry and Umunna formed new parties, and all of them got their comeuppance and lost their seats in the 2019 poll. You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that Parliament went rogue. That Parliament sought to uphold the rule of law. What came next was the Rogue Parliament where Johnson et Al illegally prorogued Parliament, lied to the Monarch and ended up taking the whole country for a ride whilst lining their own pockets. Again though you fundamentally demonstrate the flawed belief that there was an agreement about what leaving the EU looked like. Everyone knew it meant leave but did that mean a Canada Plus model? A Canadae Plus Plus? A Danish model? A "hard" Brexit ? Strangely the concept of a hard Brexit was never mentioned until after the referendum so you can hardly argue people voted for it. Parliament was plunged into chaos because no one knew how the UK was meant to leave the EU. There was no plan which led to everyone arguing about what it meant and contradicting each other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: It wasn't me who brought up the colour of passports as a brexit benefit. That was @The Voice of Reason. I simply responded to it. No I didn’t. This is what I said:- “Sounds about as trivial [Cornish Clotted Cream etc in Australia etc] as Remainers going on about the colour of passports!” Hardly describing it as a Brexit benefit is it? Edited January 24 by The Voice of Reason 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: Parliament was plunged into chaos because no one knew how the UK was meant to leave the EU. There was no plan which led to everyone arguing about what it meant and contradicting each other. You mean there was a difference of opinions. Not exactly unique in the world of politics is it? Edited January 24 by The Voice of Reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 24 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: No I didn’t. This is what I said:- “Sounds about as trivial [Cornish Clotted Cream etc in Australia etc] as Remainers going on about the colour of passports!” Hardly describing it as a Brexit benefit is it? Remainers weren't worried about the colour of passports... what are you on about? 16 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: You mean there was a difference of opinions. Not exactly unique in the world of politics is it? ...... But I thought everyone knew what voting leave meant. If that is true how could there possibly be a difference of opinions when it came to implementation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, manxman1980 said: Remainers weren't worried about the colour of passports... what are you on about? ...... But I thought everyone knew what voting leave meant. If that is true how could there possibly be a difference of opinions when it came to implementation? Re the colour of passports Remainers used it as an imaginary stick in an attempt to beat those who wished to Leave. It’s not really an issue, but I guess there is some symbolism there. Yes everyone knew what voting leave meant. It means that the UK would no longer be part of the European Union. Mission achieved. Now, many have compared Brexit as being anologous to a couple separating and there are indeed many similarities. What are the financial implications for example? In July 2021 EU estimated a settlement ( “ divorce bill” ) of 41 billion. The UK govt said it was somewhere between 35 and 39 billion. These sort of details have to be negotiated. What about EU citizens already settled in the UK and UK citizens settled in the EU? What will the status of each be? Seems that a sensible solution has been applied in that by and large those EU citizens living in the UK ( and vice versa) at the time of Brexit can stay So yes the decision has been made, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t residual issues ( like with a divorce) and there will be differences of opinions when it comes to implementation. One likes to think that with goodwill on both sides these can be resolved and the UK and the EU will become good neighbours. Just like myself and my ex wife are on good terms now after the ( not unexpected) initial angst of our separation and subsequent divorce 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) @The Voice of Reason I get the comparison but it wasn't presented as a messy divorce prior to the referendum . Remember the "easiest trade deal in history", or how the German car industry would demand deals with the UK and the claims that "they need us more than we need them"? How about the pesky issue of Northern Ireland? Remember the claims of magic electronic borders? Remainers tried to point to these problems but it was dismissed as project fear. Just face it... the leave campaign never expected to win and as a result there was no plan. The UK, for a multitude of reasons blindly stepped into the unknown. I assume that you have seen the news recently that the UK has denied entry to EU Citizens with pre-settled status in the UK. In fact I think the UK has denied entry to more EU Citizens than from any other place which seems odd. Edited January 25 by manxman1980 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 On 1/23/2024 at 6:23 PM, woolley said: You're on my home turf here. I buy and sell currency all the time in the business, well not so much personally nowadays, but still. So currencies fluctuate. Who knew? There are petro and reserve currency factors with the dollar, so let's look at the euro. You've been very selective with your dates. Don't know why, but I can inform you that during our membership of the EU, the exchange rate was even more volatile, and fell a lot further. So £1 = €1.38688 in June 2015 and €1.15959 in Dec 2023, as you helpfully point out. This might seem devastating until you realise that there have been times during our EU membership that it traded at pretty much where it is now or lower. In Feb 2013, for instance, it traded at €1.154, and in the aftermath of the financial crisis, a lowly €1.02945 in Dec 2008, so no shelter from the storm by virtue of our EU membership. In fact, for 6 years from 2008 to 2014, give or take a few cents, it traded exactly where it is today, so 2015 was the outlier. Now. In 2000 sterling reached the heady highs of €1.73, so should I claim that our membership of the EU caused the catastrophic decline in the currency from €1.73 to €1.03 in 8 years, even before the Tories got into power and wrecked everything? No. because I'm not stupid. @woolley I revisited your post above trying to ascertain what "fantasy" it was I was supposed to be purporting because it was news to me! Except for the aforementioned Big Helga of course. I chose 2015 as the baseline simply because it was before the brexit madness descended on the UK and no other reason. So no "fantasy" involved, except in your head that is. Of course, I could have mentioned this from the Guardian June 2016: "Pound slumps to 31-year low following Brexit vote "Results from across the country suggesting the Brexit camp were on the brink of declaring a referendum victory saw sterling down 10% against the dollar. "The value of sterling slumped to a 31-year low on currency markets and was on course for its biggest one-day loss in history as panicking investors contemplated the prospect of a vote to leave the European Union. "Results from across the country suggesting the Brexit camp was on the brink of declaring a referendum victory led to sterling reversing initial gains to leave the pound down more than 10% at $1.33, compared with $1.50 just after polling stations closed. That was the lowest since 1985. The pound was down more than 7% against the euro." But I didn't because I'm not stupid. Yes currency exchange rates can fluctuate. Well whoopie-doo, who knew...? Personally I think comparisons prior to 2015 are a complete waste of time. Because prior to that there was simply no brexit vote, no pandemic encircling the globe and no Russian tanks rolling West intent on conquest! Some rather large shocks to the monetary system there you could rightly say. So there was also no fantasy. Just the figures... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 14 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: Yes everyone knew what voting leave meant. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 "And industries like steel...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, La Colombe said: Leave EU - the benefits Quite scary that 17m+ Brits actually believed all that drivel. As per racism thinly disguised as "immigration" was front and centre... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Quite scary that 17m+ Brits actually believed all that drivel. As per racism thinly disguised as "immigration" was front and centre... Dear god, after all this time you're still spouting more of the same shite than a cow with diarrhoea. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 4 minutes ago, quilp said: Dear god, after all this time you're still spouting more of the same shite than a cow with diarrhoea. Touched a nerve did it? Oh good. As you know I believe that those who diminished our country should be taken to task for it. At the very least they should apologise. It does make me smile how lots on here run down populist Trump, let's face it quite rightly as well, and yet they supported a totally amoral narcissistic serial philanderer and inveterate liar who is similarly a populist "get brexit done" to the detriment of us all... Hypocrites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Boring to the end... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 51 minutes ago, P.K. said: As you know I believe that those who diminished our country should be taken to task for it. At the very least they should apologise. I assume in your own peculiar way you are referring to those who voted for Brexit. They should be very much appreciated for getting the country its sovereignty back. Although unable to vote myself I, along with so many others applaud them. By the way have you ever thought how of how offensive it is labelling Brexiteers “racists”.? It’s a slur you have repeated often. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 5 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: I assume in your own peculiar way you are referring to those who voted for Brexit. They should be very much appreciated for getting the country its sovereignty back. Although unable to vote myself I, along with so many others applaud them. By the way have you ever thought how of how offensive it is labelling Brexiteers “racists”.? It’s a slur you have repeated often. So deny that racists voted for brexit. The floor is yours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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