The Voice of Reason Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 9 hours ago, P.K. said: @The Voice of Reason This is the very last time I will respond to your piss-poor trolling. Great Except it’s not trolling. But I’m willing to say it is for the sake of argument if you stick to your word and not do a Crazy Dave type u-turn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 45 minutes ago, La Colombe said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 8 hours ago, Freggyragh said: P.K., you constantly conflate 'racist' with 'anti-immigration' — but in parts of England that have seen a lot of immigration and very little spending on infrastructure, housing and public services, immigration is understandably seen as undesirable — and statistics on the beneficial effect of immigration are just not obvious to people who can no longer see a dentist. Tice and Farage are obviously charlatans, but they are exploiting feelings born out of experience. Of course, it is stupid to hate the people moving to your town who are often coming to provide the services you lack, but I think it is a more general ignorance than pure racism that is to blame. I'm of the opinion that the UK is a much more racist society than a lot would feel comfortable with. Quantifying it is the problem. If you were to send a gaggle of girlies out and about a typical UK town armed with clipboards, like most of us instinctively try to avoid, to ask folks "Are you a racist?" how many honest answers do you think they would get? I would suggest only from those who weren't racists with the rest lying about it. You do get little insights from time to time though. On national tv Naga Munchetty stated that she faced racism every day. Not very PC but I believed her because she knew it would kick up a shitstorm but said it anyway. Good for her. Then there's London's Finest - the Met Police. They are forever being charged with "institutional racism" which makes it hard to deny. With their deliberately broad-based recruiting policy the Met simply reflects UK society at large with it's inescapable conclusion. Then we have Nigel Farage dragging UK politics down to a new nadir. Hard to believe after Margaret Thatcher. He knew exactly what he was doing with his infamous "Breaking Point" poster of desperate people fleeing a war zone. It was clearly designed to appeal to certain "baser" instincts in the electorate to get them to vote for brexit - and it worked. Which is why economic arguments like the obvious fact that the UK was never going to cut better trade deals than the EU with it's massive customer base carried no weight at all with these people. Plus making it more difficult, more time consuming and therefore more expensive to trade with the massive bloc right on our doorstep can only be a very stupid thing to do - so what? Then there's the much hackneyed "sovereignty" nonsense that was never an issue in over forty years of EU membership which naturally never got a look-in. And they're still at it with their "stop the boats" nonsense. In the "Illegal Migration Bill" it states: "There are no visa routes to enable people to claim asylum in the UK from overseas" Which means you can only claim asylum by actually being in the UK. And the only route into the UK for these folks is via people smugglers. So government policy is actually driving the boats but nobody will admit it. But the government like it because it looks like they are doing something to appease a certain sector of the electorate. Mind you, legal non-EU migrants are at an all time high which has certain people frothing at the mouth - what a delicious irony and a massive own goal by the racist brexiteers...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said: Well I’m not sure what this extended conversation has all been about then! I am inclined to agree that these unsavoury characters were more likely to vote Leave but if their votes didn’t affect the overall result,apart from noting they are not nice people (which we already know)there is nothing to complain about or make an issue of. The vote was very close so to say their votes didn't affect the overall result is naively stupid because it may well have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 16 hours ago, P.K. said: BS. I told you why pre-2015 was no longer relevant. Go ahead, make a case for why it matters to the world we live in now. You're just being silly. You quoted a set of figures since Brexit. I quoted the corresponding even worse ones from the time of the UK's EU membership. You come back and say that those are not relevant, which is patently illogical when we are doing a comparison. You chose this particular pitch to play the match on, not me. As has been pointed out, it isn't even a reliable measure of economic performance, but you chose it. Now you are saying that because you won the second half 1 nil, the fact that you were 3 nil down at half time is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 16 hours ago, manxman1980 said: @woolley so nation or region of origin for produce doesn't matter but is somehow all important for a person? Does a quintessentially British product not deserve protection from being copied and sold as if it was actually made in Britain? I assume you have seen that supermarkets are busy making up fake farms to convince consumers that the produce is fresh and local? Companies will try all sorts to sell cheap crap at premium prices. It does matter and it is covered by country of origin as at present. Supermarkets have been doing that for at least 20 years, probably much longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Just now, woolley said: You're just being silly. You quoted a set of figures since Brexit. I quoted the corresponding even worse ones from the time of the UK's EU membership. You come back and say that those are not relevant, which is patently illogical when we are doing a comparison. You chose this particular pitch to play the match on, not me. As has been pointed out, it isn't even a reliable measure of economic performance, but you chose it. Now you are saying that because you won the second half 1 nil, the fact that you were 3 nil down at half time is irrelevant. Pull the other one Woolster, it plays Rule Britannia! The Brexit vote in 2016 drastically changed the UK's fortunes. Which is why the £ plummeted to a record low. Pity Liz Truss wasn't paying attention or she would have realised that the markets don't like stupidity. It also changed how the UK trades with others from a top player in the best trading bloc on the planet straight down to Third Country Trading status and desperate for deals. Stupid stupid stupid. Add a pandemic and a couple of serious conflicts and any comparison with that clusterfuck and what went before is clearly a complete and utter nonsense. Still, you keep banging your hollow little drum if it makes you happy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 15 minutes ago, P.K. said: The Brexit vote in 2016 drastically changed the UK's fortunes. Which is why the £ plummeted to a record low. So why did it plunge to an even lower level in 2009, 2011, 2013? And as I said, you were the one making the comparison. Now you don't seem to like it so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, woolley said: It does matter and it is covered by country of origin as at present. Supermarkets have been doing that for at least 20 years, probably much longer. So why does the Australia trade deal allow Scotch Whisky (and was it Cornish Clotted Cream?) to be produced in Australia and branded in such a way that the Country of Origin is not clear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 37 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: So why does the Australia trade deal allow Scotch Whisky (and was it Cornish Clotted Cream?) to be produced in Australia and branded in such a way that the Country of Origin is not clear? Well I’ve done a bit of research (ie Googled) on this subject and can’t find anything about Scotch Whisky being produced and allowed to be branded as such in Australia. There however is much about the Scotch Whisky Association welcoming the agreement which will result in the removal of a 5% tariff on Scottish Whisky coming into Australia. The Australian certification rules don’t allow ( or didn’t in 2022) whisky to be called Scotch Whisky if it’s not produced in Scotland, and a couple of other conditions ( eg it can’t be less than 40% ABV) But if anyone can produce evidence to the contrary then I’ll be happy to admit to being proven wrong. Meantime I did find this in my searching from the UK DOI :- Ten benefits of the UK – Australia Free Trade Agreement 1. Tariff free trade for all British goods The deal removes tariffs on £4.3bn of exports, making it cheaper to sell iconic products like cars, Scotch whisky and ceramics into Australia - supporting industries that employ 3.5 million people in the UK. Car makers in the Midlands and the North of England will benefit. 2. Easier for Brits to travel and work in Australia Brits under the age of 35 will be able to travel and work in Australia more freely, opening exciting opportunities for young people. Highly skilled professionals will now be able to work in Australia temporarily and Aussie firms will no longer have to prioritise hiring Australian nationals first. 3. Lower prices and more choice for British shoppers The elimination of tariffs on Australian favourites like Jacob’s Creek and Hardys wines, Tim Tams and Vegemite will boost choice for British consumers and save British households up to £34 million a year. Our manufacturers will also benefit from cheaper imports of vital parts and ingredients from Australia. 4. Enhanced access for British tech companies The deal will create opportunities for the UK’s cutting edge digital and tech sectors, preparing us to lead in industries of the future like AI, space exploration and low emissions technology. The gold standard deal, with the world’s first ever innovation chapter, will facilitate the free flow of data, saving UK businesses from the cost of setting up servers in Australia, whilst maintaining personal data protections standards for British consumers. 5. Greater opportunities for UK professionals in Australia UK Lawyers will be able to practice in Australia without having to requalify as an Australian lawyer. The deal will help facilitate the recognition of UK professional qualifications across many sectors, creating opportunity for our professionals while allowing British companies to attract and retain global talent. 6. Boost for UK services industries The UK exported £5.4 billion worth of services to Australia in 2020 accounting for 56 per cent of our total exports to the country. The combined effect of the deal’s cutting-edge provisions, allowing UK and Australian service professionals access to each other’s markets, and reduced barriers to investment will give a substantial lift to the UK’s service sectors. 7. Slashing red tape for entrepreneurs and small business Red tape and bureaucracy will be torn down for more than 13,000 small businesses across the length and breadth of the UK who already export goods to Australia. The agreement will deliver quicker export times and ensure small business have access to new intelligence that will better allow them to seize the opportunities created by the deal. 8. Access to billions of pounds worth of procurement contracts British companies will now be able to bid for additional Australian government contracts worth billions of pounds. It is the most substantial level of access Australia has ever granted in a free trade agreement, creating new opportunities for UK firms including in transport and financial services, building on the success of companies like Leeds-headquartered Turner & Townsend, who have project managed some of Australia’s biggest public transport infrastructure programmes. 9. Stronger cooperation on shared challenges Australia is a like-minded democracy that shares our belief in free enterprise, the rule of law, and high standards in areas like labour, animal welfare, gender equality and the environment. The deal will uphold these high standards and foster collaboration on challenges like tackling climate change and unfair trading practices. 10. Paves the way to CPTPP Australia strongly supports UK membership of CPTPP, which will further open up 11 Pacific markets worth £9 trillion GDP . CPTPP membership will secure British exports superior access to these growing markets, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 The Australian FTA was of "negative benefit" to the UK you idiot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, P.K. said: The Australian FTA was of "negative benefit" to the UK you idiot... 21 hours ago you said “This is the very last time I will respond to your piss-poor trolling.” I think you’ve actually beaten Crazy Dave in time taken in reneging on a promise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 9 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: 21 hours ago you said “This is the very last time I will respond to your piss-poor trolling.” I think you’ve actually beaten Crazy Dave in time taken in reneging on a promise Is that an admission from you that you are trolling? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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