The Voice of Reason Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) On 2/5/2024 at 5:33 PM, woolley said: Meanwhile, the barricades are up around EUtopialand, and they're complaining about all the same 2020s problems that the remainiacs are blaming on Brexit. Yes indeed, seems the chickens are coming home to roost Edited February 7 by The Voice of Reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 The Europeans do protests so much better than us especially the French Farmers. Got to be admired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 12 hours ago, manxman1980 said: The Europeans do protests so much better than us especially the French Farmers. Got to be admired. I'm sure "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité" has a lot to do with not being kettled, truncheoned and illegally arrested. They still have civil rights that are respected. Whereas our worst government in living memory, probably forever, have been eroding ours. Watched the "Battle of Orgreave" the other night. The Met Police were obviously under orders to go in hard and they did. They then tried to fit up the miners arrested with accusations of "Riot" with weapons allegedly found and lots of false testimony. All bollox of course. The "charges" were eventually thrown out but those who brutally attacked the miners, produced false testimony, purjured themselves etc etc had no actions brought against them. It reminded me of why I hated Thatcher so much and for good reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 18 hours ago, manxman1980 said: The Europeans do protests so much better than us especially the French Farmers. Got to be admired. There are things bad enough to protest about in the EU nirvana? Goodness me. Who knew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, woolley said: There are things bad enough to protest about in the EU nirvana? Goodness me. Who knew? There is even more to protest about in the UK but the Government doesn't like that so has introduced legislation to prevent protests (or tried too. I can't remember how far it got). Also worth pointing out I said French Farmers. That includes protesting against the French Governments own policy. They haven't bought into the bullshit about Brussels controlling everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 16 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: They haven't bought into the bullshit about Brussels controlling everything It's EU Law they've been protesting about! Von der Leyen furiously backpedalling as we speak. Have you forgotten what I told you about EU Primary Law being supreme over member state national laws? https://euobserver.com/green-economy/158035 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 41 minutes ago, woolley said: It's EU Law they've been protesting about! Von der Leyen furiously backpedalling as we speak. Have you forgotten what I told you about EU Primary Law being supreme over member state national laws? https://euobserver.com/green-economy/158035 Yes, this time they have but a lot of the time when you see the French protesting it is against their own Government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 4 hours ago, manxman1980 said: Yes, this time they have but a lot of the time when you see the French protesting it is against their own Government. That’s as maybe. But their own Government are bound by EU rules. “French President Emmanuel Macron is set to push for changes to European Union (EU) legislation to address grievances being expressed by farmers in France and across the bloc, the country's farming minister Marc Fesneau said on Monday amid ongoing protests. French farmers and their tractors head Many farmers are unhappy about the EU's 2023 nature restoration law, which requires member countries to introduce environmental measures on a fifth of their land and sea by 2030. To reach this goal, around 4% of farmland has to remain fallow, cutting into farmers' production capabilities.” Edited February 8 by The Voice of Reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: That’s as maybe. But their own Government are bound by EU rules. “French President Emmanuel Macron is set to push for changes to European Union (EU) legislation to address grievances being expressed by farmers in France and across the bloc, the country's farming minister Marc Fesneau said on Monday amid ongoing protests. French farmers and their tractors head Many farmers are unhappy about the EU's 2023 nature restoration law, which requires member countries to introduce environmental measures on a fifth of their land and sea by 2030. To reach this goal, around 4% of farmland has to remain fallow, cutting into farmers' production capabilities.” Thus they haven’t got their own Government, their own sovereignty. Hence in the UK the populace voted to leave the EU 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 19 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Thus they haven’t got their own Government, their own sovereignty. Hence in the UK the populace voted to leave the EU Keep telling yourself that. The laws in the UK, France, Germany and the rest of the EU may share some commonality but you might be surprised just how different some of it is. Why is it different if they are all ruled by the EU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 11 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Keep telling yourself that. The laws in the UK, France, Germany and the rest of the EU may share some commonality but you might be surprised just how different some of it is. Why is it different if they are all ruled by the EU? The principle of the supremacy of EU law means that EU law takes precedence over the national law of EU member states. This principle was established by the European Court of Justice in its 1964 ruling in the Costa v ENEL case. The principle of supremacy is based on the idea that the EU is a union of member states, and that the EU legal order is separate and superior to the national legal orders of its member states. This means that if there is a conflict between EU law and national law, EU law takes precedence and must be applied by the national courts. The supremacy of EU law ensures the uniform application and interpretation of EU law across all member states, and prevents member states from adopting laws that conflict with EU law. It also means that national courts are required to set aside any national laws that conflict with EU law. Thats it in a nutshell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 26 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: The principle of the supremacy of EU law means that EU law takes precedence over the national law of EU member states. This principle was established by the European Court of Justice in its 1964 ruling in the Costa v ENEL case. The principle of supremacy is based on the idea that the EU is a union of member states, and that the EU legal order is separate and superior to the national legal orders of its member states. This means that if there is a conflict between EU law and national law, EU law takes precedence and must be applied by the national courts. The supremacy of EU law ensures the uniform application and interpretation of EU law across all member states, and prevents member states from adopting laws that conflict with EU law. It also means that national courts are required to set aside any national laws that conflict with EU law. Thats it in a nutshell. You surely can’t argue that this is not a loss of sovereignty. But no, of course Brexit was all about people being racist wasn’t it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, manxman1980 said: Why is it different if they are all ruled by the EU? Of course there are differences because some of these countries are ancient and have been passing laws for centuries. EU secondary and tertiary law also allows latitude in interpretation for member states provided they move to comply with the aim of the legislation which they are obliged to do in good time. EU primary law allows no such latitude or implementation period. It is effective immediately it is enacted by the EU. None of this is compatible with national self-determination, and this is the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 8 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: You surely can’t argue that this is not a loss of sovereignty. But no, of course Brexit was all about people being racist wasn’t it? 6 hours ago, woolley said: Of course there are differences because some of these countries are ancient and have been passing laws for centuries. EU secondary and tertiary law also allows latitude in interpretation for member states provided they move to comply with the aim of the legislation which they are obliged to do in good time. EU primary law allows no such latitude or implementation period. It is effective immediately it is enacted by the EU. None of this is compatible with national self-determination, and this is the issue. So.... Which EU Laws are you looking forward too being scrapped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 7 hours ago, manxman1980 said: So.... Which EU Laws are you looking forward too being scrapped? They've all been scrapped as EU Law and incorporated as UK Law which is exclusively under the jurisdiction of the UK Parliament and can be upheld, repealed or amended as the UK sees fit without recourse to 27 other countries. Again, it's all about self-determination. The same reason that imperial rule over colonies is out of fashion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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