Brexit Penny Dropping?

[woolley]

45 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

 Maybe it is an LSE policy but not something I routinely see anywhere else hence why it caught my eye.

I don't see it as that much of a deal. The LSE will publish all manner of views that are those of associates rather than its own. If it really wanted to distance itself, presumably it would not publish such material at all.

[manxman1980]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

OK bit of a distraction which is probably why you are asking.

Sked resigned because he thought the party was attracting the wrong sort of people per the article.

And by the wrong sort of people you mean??  

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Now you say you have accepted the Brexit result. Well you can’t do any other unless you have any evidence that it was rigged or something .

I understand it’s not the result you wanted and you had your own good reasons for that but it wasn’t the majority view. 

So let’s put all that behind us and work together in this new environment.

I am not actively campaigning to rejoin.  That can wait a bit longer.  

There is evidence the the Leave campaign (one of them at least) broke UK rules.  There is also evidence that Cambridge Analytica used some questionable techniques to manipulate people.  There is also evidence Russia has been interfering in UK politics and the Brexit referendum but the result stands.

Work together?   No thanks.  I will,  however, continue to work in the environment in which I find myself and aim to make a positive contribution to society.

[manxman1980]

3 minutes ago, woolley said:

I don't see it as that much of a deal. The LSE will publish all manner of views that are those of associates rather than its own. If it really wanted to distance itself, presumably it would not publish such material at all.

It does appear to be a consistent approach on that particular site.  

It's interesting as I don't see that approach elsewhere.  

[woolley]

3 hours ago, Freggyragh said:

You've got that arse-about-face. He's lost freedom and won the argument, at least insofar as brexit is a festering turd. You won an advisory referendum with dodgy funding and without knowing what you were actually voting for. 

It's like there are two Freggys. Sometimes you can take quite well reasoned, nuanced positions. I don't often agree with them, but they are reasoned nonetheless. Other times you make execrable posts like this.

[woolley]

1 minute ago, manxman1980 said:

It does appear to be a consistent approach on that particular site.  

It's interesting as I don't see that approach elsewhere.  

Probably because of the sector they are in. They offer a platform, but don't want to nail their colours to any particular mast.

[woolley]

50 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Get over yourself.  I don't agree with the outcome, I don't agree with the way in which Brexit was implemented, and I don't see any benefits.

What I have done is accepted the result and carried on making the best of my life.

It frustrates me though that two businesses I have worked for since the referendum have been negatively impacted by Brexit.  One saw massive increases in import costs and delays bringing materials into the UK for a major infrastructure project.  That same business also had to incur additional costs of obtaining a sponsorship licence to deploy skilled workers from the EU in the UK.  Up to that point they had been able to do so without incurring additional costs.  Those skilled workers were being used to train and mentor UK workers to improve the talent pool there.  That was dramatically curtailed as a result of Brexit.

The second business has also seen its supply chains impacted.  The loss of EU funding for UK infrastructure projects has also seen its market shrink in size.  Despite what you will tell me the UK Government has simply not matched the funding and as a result projects have been shelved.  Similarly that business has also had to pay for sponsorship licences and visas in order to continue employing some people.  Once again in skills shortage areas.

Neither of those businesses have seen any brexit benefits. 

None of this is good reason for outsourcing the running of national affairs. Of course there is no such thing as EU funding. It took UK taxpayers' money and give two thirds of it back with instructions on how to spend it. Great idea!

[manxman1980]

2 minutes ago, woolley said:

None of this is good reason for outsourcing the running of national affairs. Of course there is no such thing as EU funding. It took UK taxpayers' money and give two thirds of it back with instructions on how to spend it. Great idea!

How are those 40 new hospitals the Tories promised coming along?

What about the wonderfully successful HS2? 

Northern Powerhouse?

Levelling Up?

[woolley]

12 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

How are those 40 new hospitals the Tories promised coming along?

What about the wonderfully successful HS2? 

Northern Powerhouse?

Levelling Up?

What about them? I'm not here to advocate for the Tories.

[manxman1980]

6 hours ago, woolley said:

What about them? I'm not here to advocate for the Tories.

Well the money that was paid to the EU and then returned to fund specific UK projects has not exactly been used to fund those projects. 

You may be all for making decisions in the country but when you have a bunch of incompetents running the place.  Well, things don't go well l.

HS2 is a great example.  They have cut the scheme down to the Birmingham to London section to save money.   What they failed to understand is that by doing so they have completely removed any benefits of the project.  They have demonstrated a complete inability to understand reports that they commissioned. 

Now maybe the UK will have a more competent Government after the election this year and that will deliver imprisonment and actual brexit benefits but I am not going to hold my breath.

 

[woolley]

12 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

Well the money that was paid to the EU and then returned to fund specific UK projects has not exactly been used to fund those projects. 

You may be all for making decisions in the country but when you have a bunch of incompetents running the place.  Well, things don't go well l.

HS2 is a great example.  They have cut the scheme down to the Birmingham to London section to save money.   What they failed to understand is that by doing so they have completely removed any benefits of the project.  They have demonstrated a complete inability to understand reports that they commissioned. 

Now maybe the UK will have a more competent Government after the election this year and that will deliver imprisonment and actual brexit benefits but I am not going to hold my breath.

 

I find it incredible when people come out with stuff like this. You reckon we have a bunch of incompetents running the country, so your remedy is to outsource it to a different bunch of incompetents outside the country. No. This is not the answer. You put your own house in order like adults. People fought wars and died for these principles.

I agree about HS2. An absolute nonsense of a decision. It has to go to London, and it has to go at to Crewe at the bare minimum. At least north of there the west coast main line splits 3 ways so you get some capacity boost. Stopping at Birmingham leaves you with the bottleneck between there and Crewe, gaining nothing. There are mitigating factors around the vast amounts of public money doled out through Covid and the inflation following that would have blown any government well off course, but the HS2 decision is ridiculous.

Edited February 14 by woolley

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

I find it incredible when people come out with stuff like this. You reckon we have a bunch of incompetents running the country, so your remedy is to outsource it to a different bunch of incompetents outside the country. No. This is not the answer. You put your own house in order like adults. People fought wars and died for these principles.

Not outsource but act as a check and balance against the incompetence and greed that often rears it in a two party system.  The Lords is meant to do that but it is stuffed full of political appointments. 

Back to the war trope?  King and Country?  Cannon fodder whilst the wealthy and powerful stay safely ensconced away from the real danger.  Conscription meant no choice.  No doubt people wanted to fight to protect the UK from Nazis but those values have been allowed to creep into modern society.  Anti-semitism had been in the news all week.  People still believe that the Jews control the media and form a shadowy world Government.  

On the other side are all the anti-Islaamists and the view that anyone with brown skin is a terrorist.

I really do wonder what those who fought in the war would make of the values displayed today.

1 hour ago, woolley said:

I agree about HS2. An absolute nonsense of a decision. It has to go to London, and it has to go at to Crewe at the bare minimum. At least north of there the west coast main line splits 3 ways so you get some capacity boost. Stopping at Birmingham leaves you with the bottleneck between there and Crewe, gaining nothing. There are mitigating factors around the vast amounts of public money doled out through Covid and the inflation following that would have blown any government well off course, but the HS2 decision is ridiculous.

It's worse than that...  if it doesn't go to London Euston they are going to end up burying at least one hugely expensive and unused tunnel boring machine.

The Government seem to be under the impression that someone in the Private sector will finish thale last bit into London.

The Tories themselves should take a lot of blame for additional costs.  Originally the plan did not need so many tunnels but Tory voters objected to being able to see the railway so it was put underground.   This required ventilation which the same Tory voters felt looked unsightly at the surface so they agreed to build fake barns around them at great expense.

This same shower are the ones that wanted Brexit and were charged with delivering it successfully.  Do you really think they have done a good job?  Has Brexit really turned out to be what you expected? 

[The Voice of Reason]

55 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Not outsource but act as a check and balance against the incompetence and greed that often rears it in a two party system.  The Lords is meant to do that but it is stuffed full of political appointments. 

Back to the war trope?  King and Country?  Cannon fodder whilst the wealthy and powerful stay safely ensconced away from the real danger.  Conscription meant no choice.  No doubt people wanted to fight to protect the UK from Nazis but those values have been allowed to creep into modern society.  Anti-semitism had been in the news all week.  People still believe that the Jews control the media and form a shadowy world Government.  

On the other side are all the anti-Islaamists and the view that anyone with brown skin is a terrorist.

I really do wonder what those who fought in the war would make of the values displayed today.

It's worse than that...  if it doesn't go to London Euston they are going to end up burying at least one hugely expensive and unused tunnel boring machine.

The Government seem to be under the impression that someone in the Private sector will finish thale last bit into London.

The Tories themselves should take a lot of blame for additional costs.  Originally the plan did not need so many tunnels but Tory voters objected to being able to see the railway so it was put underground.   This required ventilation which the same Tory voters felt looked unsightly at the surface so they agreed to build fake barns around them at great expense.

This same shower are the ones that wanted Brexit and were charged with delivering it successfully.  Do you really think they have done a good job?  Has Brexit really turned out to be what you expected? 

Well where do you begin to unpick all this?
 

The House of Lords is apparently ( you say) unable to act as a check and balance for the elected House of Commons, so we would ask the French and Germans to assume that role. Yes I do wonder what those who fought in the war would make of that.

How many people apart from conspiracy theorists ( a few nutters)believe that Jews control the media and form a shadowy world government or that people with a brown skin are automatically terrorists?

Yes the Tories are shite and are in part accountable for UK economic woes, notwithstanding that the world in the whole hasn’t done so great in these last few years. But to blame it on Brexit is nonsense. In fact the only redeeming feature of the Tory Government is  that it gave the people the opportunity to vote on whether or not to remain in the EU circus. And they gave their opinion.

As for the tunnel between the UK and mainland Europe, (which I think you are talking about, it’s not obvious) you seem a bit confused. It wouldn’t be the first time that fake buildings have been constructed to hide the unsightly effects of engineering constructions and make the landscape more appealing. What, pray tell, is wrong with that?

[manxman1980]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

As for the tunnel between the UK and mainland Europe, (which I think you are talking about, it’s not obvious) you seem a bit confused. It wouldn’t be the first time that fake buildings have been constructed to hide the unsightly effects of engineering constructions and make the landscape more appealing. What, pray tell, is wrong with that?

I am not referring to any tunnel between the UK and EU.

I was in fact referring to the Euston Tunnel which was to be dug for HS2 between London Euston and Old Oak Common Station. 

That connection has now been scrapped and HS2 will terminate at Old Oak Common.  A station which I am sure everyone is familiar with.

(That decision may in part have been reversed with a private company tasked with building the link.)

The other tunnel with the fake buildings is an entirely unnecessary expense and runs through the Chilterns.   HS2 was due to run overground until the Tory NIMBY's got involved and pressured their MP's to run the line underground and then hide the ventilation shafts.  All entirely unnecessary and was never costed into the original project.

[The Voice of Reason]

9 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

I am not referring to any tunnel between the UK and EU.

I was in fact referring to the Euston Tunnel which was to be dug for HS2 between London Euston and Old Oak Common Station. 

 

Well why didn’t you say so?

[manxman1980]

15 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Well why didn’t you say so?

I was talking about HS2.  HS2 doesn't go to the EU...  It will now go to exotic places like erm.... Birmingham and Old Oak Common.