Anyone Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 You don’t need 50% of the vote to win an election and form a government. So that not really the same as a referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 3 hours ago, Anyone said: You don’t need 50% of the vote to win an election and form a government. So that not really the same as a referendum. And yet that is how the UK elections work. When Boris Johnson won a large majority on the back of a Brexit agenda there was no complaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anyone Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 That’s not what I meant but never mind. Boris did not win really by a large majority it was just how the cookie crumbles. Basically any party getting 35 and a bit of the old vote can form a government. That’s what we have in the UK unless you go to PR. But suits neither Labour nor the Conservatives so that won’t happen. So the Boris vote was not an endorsement of his populist view. And don’t forget Boris did not believe in Brexit. Boris believes in nothing. A very untrustworthy chap is Boris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 5 hours ago, Anyone said: That’s not what I meant but never mind. Boris did not win really by a large majority it was just how the cookie crumbles. Basically any party getting 35 and a bit of the old vote can form a government. That’s what we have in the UK unless you go to PR. But suits neither Labour nor the Conservatives so that won’t happen. I agree with you and we don't have to go that far back in UK history to see how opposed Labour and Conservative parties are to changing the system to anything that is more representative of people's preferences. When the Lib Dems got into bed with the Conservatives to form the coalition Government I really think they believed that the public would say yes to the Alternative Vote referendum. 6 hours ago, Anyone said: So the Boris vote was not an endorsement of his populist view. And don’t forget Boris did not believe in Brexit. Boris believes in nothing. A very untrustworthy chap is Boris. But the Tory Party under Johnson gained a sizable majority in Parliament as a result of that election. That campaign was run with the slogan "Get Brexit Done" and, whether or not Johnson really believed in Brexit or not. It also doesn't matter to the Brexiteers who would have voted for anyone (but Corbyn) who made that promise. Just look at what happened to the so called "red wall" and how many of those elected a Conservative MP purely because of Brexit. Unfortunately, the UK is stuck with this stupid first past the post system which always results in a two party system which suits no-one but those in power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 8 hours ago, Anyone said: Boris believes in nothing. That's simply not true. Boris Johnson believes totally in the advancement of Boris Johnson to the exclusion of all else. The totally stupid and completely unnecessary Brexit was simply another vehicle he used to further this aim and a load of mugs helped him achieve it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/16/2024 at 2:08 PM, woolley said: But who's doing it? On 2/16/2024 at 10:49 PM, P.K. said: Racists ffs! Yes, but that doesn't tell the whole story. If it's Allahu Akbar type racists then it's a hardly surprising manifestation of the same ancient struggle imported to our streets. It's bad in France and elsewhere too. No Brexit angle there. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/french-jews-fleeing-country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/15/2024 at 7:47 PM, Non-Believer said: Britain now lags behind even the EU laggards, some 20% behind the German standard quoted. On 2/16/2024 at 12:22 AM, woolley said: What is this 20% you are quoting without context? Could you elucidate, please? You've been back to the thread since I last looked in, but still no context re this 20% claim. What is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/16/2024 at 3:08 PM, manxman1980 said: Okay, I accept that. However, where is the UK - USA trade deal? There isn't one yet. You don't need one of course, just as the USA doesn't need one for the EU to be its largest bilateral trading relationship. (Although of course that's only because the EU represents 27 members totaling a population of 450m). It's true to say that the UK runs a trade deficit with the US while the EU runs a surplus. However, that's for UK business to sort out. Total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) between the EU and United States was 910 billion US dollars. Total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) between the UK and United States was £315.1 billion in the four quarters to the end of Q3 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/16/2024 at 3:53 PM, P.K. said: Well, as you've long suspected, that's because the EU is run by evil Goblins intent on world domination! I wonder if Ukraine had been a member of the EU would Putin have still invaded? I suspect probably not... Run by self-serving bureaucrats which is infinitely worse. The road to hell, and all of that. Give me rule by evil goblins any day. I suspect you are wrong. NATO maybe, but Putin is not impressed by the EU for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/17/2024 at 6:12 PM, The Voice of Reason said: Jo Swinson’s offer is just to permanently polarise the electorate around Brexit. The Lib Dems still have no distinctive pitch for issues beyond leaving the EU She lost her own seat with that offering which must have been the ultimate humiliation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, woolley said: However, that's for UK business to sort out. And how will UK business do that without a trade deal? The US is going to be an incredibly difficult market for a UK business to crack. I am sure you or The Voice will point to the service sector. Well, how much of that is actually UK business, and how much is US firms operating in the UK? Outside of the EU, the UK needs a trade deal with the US. Was it Trump who said it would be "the easiest trade deal in the history of trade deals"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, woolley said: She lost her own seat with that offering which must have been the ultimate humiliation. It did. Not sure why @The Voice of Reason dragged that article up. So far no explanation as to why it is relevant years later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: It did. Not sure why @The Voice of Reason dragged that article up. So far no explanation as to why it is relevant years later... I “dragged it up” because Barney said he had “ left” the Liberal Democrats. , He didn’t say when. It could have been a year ago, it could have been ten years ago. It was a policy of the Lib Dems that they would disregard and ride roughshod over the democratically expressed will of the people. Maybe Barney was a Lib Dem person at the time they embraced that policy. We don’t know Many things are relevant years later. For example the treatment of the miners in the 1984 strike by Thatcher et al still resonates and it still has an impact today on ex mining communities. Journalists are still writing articles about that time. Being from a mining community it will certainly live with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 19 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: It was a policy of the Lib Dems that they would disregard and ride roughshod over the democratically expressed will of the people. Once again... if the Lib Dems had won enough of a majority at the election, with that pledge as part of their manifesto, then they would have obtained a mandate from the UK voters to do just that. A non-binding referendum held before they came to power would be irrelevant. 22 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Many things are relevant years later. For example the treatment of the miners in the 1984 strike by Thatcher et al still resonates and it still has an impact today on ex mining communities. Journalists are still writing articles about that time. Being from a mining community it will certainly live with me. But Jo Swinson and the Lid Dems didn't win the election and therefore couldn't take the UK back into the EU. The miners strikes actually happened and of course they will resonate from those who witnessed them. Do you see how the two things are different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 @The Voice of Reason and @woolley if we are dragging up pointless manifestos from the last this is a link to the Conservative one in 1997. http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1997/1997-conservative-manifesto.shtml Interesting reference to Britain being the sick man of Europe. The vision for 2020 is interesting as well. Tariff free global trade! Also remarkable of how much of that manifesto could apply to the Conservative party of today. Its almost as if they haven't achieved anything after 14 years in Government! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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