The Voice of Reason Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: Would that be the election which the Tory campaign centred around "Get Brexit Done"? The one that ensured Brexiteers backed them? Well, you have heard of free speech? We are allowed to disagree with the majority vote in the same way you can (claim to) disagree with the Tory Government. That would be the election that featured “ Get Brexit Done” as one of the numerous strands of the Tory campaign. The election in which many people having voted for Brexit voted for parties other than the Tories. I myself would have voted for Brexit in the referendum but certainly not for the Tory party in a subsequent general election, if I had had a vote in either. Yes I have heard of, and endorse, free speech. And yes maybe free speech extends to calling the majority who voted for Brexit racists and “f…ing c.nts”. It’s just not the way I would choose to express myself when talking about those who voted differently to me in a democratic process. Still I suppose that sort of language appeals to, and amuses a particular sort of person Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said: That would be the election that featured “ Get Brexit Done” as one of the numerous strands of the Tory campaign. The election in which many people having voted for Brexit voted for parties other than the Tories. I myself would have voted for Brexit in the referendum but certainly not for the Tory party in a subsequent general election, if I had had a vote in either. @The Voice of Reason Not a bad tactic I suppose. Admit you would have voted for brexit, as if we didn't already know, but not for the tory party. Then you can still claim to be a brexiteer but can absolve yourself from the appallingly thin Johnson "oven ready deal not" where leaving the customs union and single market was quite simply beyond stupid. Not a bad tactic at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 minute ago, P.K. said: @The Voice of Reason Not a bad tactic I suppose. Admit you would have voted for brexit, as if we didn't already know, but not for the tory party. Then you can still claim to be a brexiteer but can absolve yourself from the appallingly thin Johnson "oven ready deal not" where leaving the customs union and single market was quite simply beyond stupid. Not a bad tactic at all... No “tactic” , just telling it like it is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Rumbled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: maybe free speech extends to calling the majority who voted for Brexit racists and “f…ing c.nts”. It’s just not the way I would choose to express myself when talking about those who voted differently to me in a democratic process. Still I suppose that sort of language appeals to, and amuses a particular sort of person But they wouldn't have voted differently to you in a democratic process, you racist, Brexit voting fucking cunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 hours ago, P.K. said: Rumbled... You certainly have been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 59 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: You certainly have been @The Voice of Reason Don't think so. Pointing out that leaving the customs union and single market was quite simply beyond stupid is "just telling it like it is" - wouldn't you agree...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 hours ago, P.K. said: @The Voice of Reason Don't think so. Pointing out that leaving the customs union and single market was quite simply beyond stupid is "just telling it like it is" - wouldn't you agree...? The most important thing for the UK was to regain sovereignty and be once again in control of its own destiny. Thereafter, the future relationship with the EU, whatever form that takes, can be negotiated from a position of independence. Thats a good thing - wouldn’t you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 7 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: That would be the election that featured “ Get Brexit Done” as one of the numerous strands of the Tory campaign. The election in which many people having voted for Brexit voted for parties other than the Tories. We have been over this. I have already pointed out that Brexit was absolutely central to the Tory Party manifesto at the last election. Why do you seem to have an issue with facts? Brexit being such a key issue at that election is one of the reasons why the Tory Party made such inroads into the "red wall" seats. That and Corbyn of course. 7 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: I myself would have voted for Brexit in the referendum but certainly not for the Tory party in a subsequent general election, if I had had a vote in either. So, who would you have voted for I the last election? Remember that the Lib Dems and Greens were promising to call off Brexit if they were elected. Reform or UKIP (whatever it was called then) decided not to contest seats against the Tory party. Labour were rather vague on Brexit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 But look at the mess the UK is now in since. It hasn't gained any of those alleged benefits from Brexit...it's lost markets, gained mass immigration, and the average voter sees genocide (and is not anti-semetic, but is anti-Netenyu) with the Gaza situation. The UK is singed up to a toothless UN...the UK backs Israel and Ukraine...and talks of genocide in Ukraine, but not Israel when the the two are the same but the UK votes in the UN are opposed. Mass immigration will affect the results of the UK General Election...Galloway already proved that this week. 10 or 20% difference will screw everything up. What a mess. Labour might be ahead, but I'm predicting a hung parliament and a mess at the next UK election. ...and then add fookin Trump, elected by a bunch of fookwits that can't even spell Iran, nevermind find it on a fookin map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 4 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: We have been over this. I have already pointed out that Brexit was absolutely central to the Tory Party manifesto at the last election. Why do you seem to have an issue with facts? Brexit being such a key issue at that election is one of the reasons why the Tory Party made such inroads into the "red wall" seats. That and Corbyn of course. So, who would you have voted for I the last election? Remember that the Lib Dems and Greens were promising to call off Brexit if they were elected. Reform or UKIP (whatever it was called then) decided not to contest seats against the Tory party. Labour were rather vague on Brexit Yes we have been over this as we have over every aspect of Brexit. Yes it was a part ( but far from the only part) of the Tory manifesto) It is your “ fact “ that it was absolutely central. So yes I may have an issue with your interpretation of how crucial it was. (And incidentally if you are correct in your interpretation of how central the issue was, and the Tories were driving it, then the movements from the red wall seats from traditional Labour voters to the Tories demonstrates how much those on both sides wanted out of the EU) How would I have voted in the last UK election had I had a vote? Reluctantly the Labour Party. It’s no longer the party I grew up with. I could never bring myself to vote Tory, but I feel Labour are the least worst of the others. Yes they were disappointingly vague on Brexit but unlike the other parties you mention didn’t promise to annul the democratic vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 8 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: a particular sort of person Ooh. Just me then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 This seems fitting here.. https://youtu.be/q9-0WGo9Zrk?si=f_85KBV_zzcJ2s-L 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 12 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: The most important thing for the UK was to regain sovereignty and be once again in control of its own destiny. Thereafter, the future relationship with the EU, whatever form that takes, can be negotiated from a position of independence weakness... Thats a good thing - wouldn’t you agree? @The Voice of Reason I asked you if you agreed that leaving the single market and customs union was a very stupid thing to do? Being as it was just a sop to the ultra right wing tory grouping known as the ERG led by intellectual colossus Mark Francois. I'm very surprised you failed to answer. Especially because as you are a Guardian reader you would have been aware of this excellent piece of journalism: Boris Johnson’s biggest lie about Europe is finally coming home to roost https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/06/boris-johnsons-biggest-lie-europe-coming-home-single-market An answer to my question would be appreciated. Thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 @P.K. You know the answer to your question already... @The Voice of Reason and @woolley see the UK gaining "sovereignty" as being worth any price. That includes leaving the single market. Unless something directly impacts them in a negative way you will not get either to concede that Brexit, done in the way it was, was a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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