P.K. Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 On 6/15/2024 at 9:52 PM, The Voice of Reason said: Had I had a vote I would have voted Leave on the 23rd June 2016, knowing exactly what I was voting for. And that vote would have been for leaving the EU. It’s really not that difficult. So which trade option did you vote for? Norway, Norway plus, Canada, Hard Brexit, whatever? Care to share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 46 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said: Now you know how this game goes - which Leave result did you want? Then this is where you go - it doesn't matter as long as we get out. Then I say - well, what about the bloke who voted for a control Leave and what about the bloke who wanted WTO etc, etc Then you say some nonsense about sovereignty and then Woolley gets involved banging the sovereignty drum despite us always having it, etc Which Remain result did you want? The one where things remained exactly as they were pre referendum, or the one where political integration becomes ever closer, the EU having become more emboldened by a Remain vote? Or even a Remain result where the UK stayed in the EU ( obvs) but the EU loosened its grip on the member states? After all this time spent debating, and you being educated you still can’t see that EU law having supremacy over domestic law means you aren’t a sovereign nation How can you be? And then by whatever strange logic you and your mates Barney and Manxman come out with “ we’ve gone from being law makers to law takers”. And then the whole thing goes round and round and round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Just now, The Voice of Reason said: Which Remain result did you want? The one where things remained exactly as they were pre referendum, or the one where political integration becomes ever closer, the EU having become more emboldened by a Remain vote? Or even a Remain result where the UK stayed in the EU ( obvs) but the EU loosened its grip on the member states? After all this time spent debating, and you being educated you still can’t see that EU law having supremacy over domestic law means you aren’t a sovereign nation How can you be? And then by whatever strange logic you and your mates Barney and Manxman come out with “ we’ve gone from being law makers to law takers”. And then the whole thing goes round and round and round The point is that had the EU put forward something unpalatable to the UK then THAT would be the time to invoke Article 50. I recall hearing Farage on Radio 4, the best broadcaster on the planet, saying it's all about the much hackneyed "sovereignty". If that was actually the case then what prompted him to produce his infamous "Breaking Point" poster of desperate folks fleeing a war zone? You've been taken for a mug... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 3 hours ago, RecklessAbandon said: Try this again but use full sentences and sources to corroborate this time. What would be the point? You'd just dismiss it with a flippant, irrelevant quip and then ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 3 minutes ago, Cambon said: What would be the point? You'd just dismiss it with a flippant, irrelevant quip and then ignore it. Okay dokey then, that resolves that complicated conversation then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 hours ago, P.K. said: So which trade option did you vote for? Norway, Norway plus, Canada, Hard Brexit, whatever? Care to share? None of them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) 2 hours ago, P.K. said: The point is that had the EU put forward something unpalatable to the UK then THAT would be the time to invoke Article 50. It was unpalatable to the electorate of the UK that EU law had supremacy over the UK, hence the referendum result. Let’s say you had a relationship with someone and one of the terms of the relationship was that they could cut one of your fingers off at any time of their choosing. Just because they hadn’t exercised that option yet, you’d be happy to continue with the relationship on that basis would you? Edited June 17 by The Voice of Reason Small adj to last sentence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 5 minutes ago, Cambon said: What would be the point? You'd just dismiss it with a flippant, irrelevant quip and then ignore it. You mean like your response to the £ exchange rate which was to claim "you have to look at the long term trend" to do what exactly? The long term trend has nothing whatever to do with the UK risking it's economic future with brexit, a global pandemic in which the UK suffered grievously thanks to the worst government in living memory and (hopefully) forever and Russian tanks rolling west intent on conquest which actually benefitted the UK by tripling our gas exports to Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said: It was unpalatable to the electorate of the UK that EU law had supremacy over the UK, hence the referendum result. The result came about because 52% of Leave voters cited "immigration" as their main concern in the referendum. Over four times as many as those who cited your precious "sovereignty" which came in at third place with just 12%. The only person you're deluding is yourself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 14 minutes ago, P.K. said: The result came about because 52% of Leave voters cited "immigration" as their main concern in the referendum. Over four times as many as those who cited your precious "sovereignty" which came in at third place with just 12%. The only person you're deluding is yourself... Let’s just accept your figures for a second. You cite “immigration “ as Leave voters main concern in the referendum. Has it not occurred to you that voting Leave for secondary reasons, say sovereignty ( or tertiary reasons etc) may well have produced the same result. Like yourself when I hear people say “there’s too much immigration “ I shudder and immediately associate that with racist attitudes. But I think we need to recognise that people may have what they see as legitimate concerns about the level of immigration ( and I don’t believe the majority of those people are racist)We should be able to have a grown up discussion about the benefits of immigration ( eg plugging skills gaps, cultural enrichment ) and the downsides ( eg any extra strain on infrastructure) without accusations of racism being thrown about. Farages poster was offensive ( and racist) but you can’t say that was responsible for the majority vote for Brexit. If anything it probably put people off voting Leave for fear of being accused of being approving of it. For many have made such an accusation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 The Met Police are continuously being slated as being "institutionally racist". With their deliberately broad-based receuitment policy the Met simply reflect UK society at large. The conclusion is inescapable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 On 6/15/2024 at 9:17 PM, Cambon said: I am not at all sure what you are on about. Please tell me, apart from potentially meaning a little disruption to your holibobs, how has Brexit been negative! The return of roaming charges when using a UK mobile phone in the EU despite assurances that this would not happen. The absolute shambolic state of the UK Government following the resignations of the last two (reasonably) competent PM's in David Cameron & Theresa May. Both left because of Brexit albeit for different reasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 5 hours ago, manxman1980 said: The return of roaming charges when using a UK mobile phone in the EU despite assurances that this would not happen. The absolute shambolic state of the UK Government following the resignations of the last two (reasonably) competent PM's in David Cameron & Theresa May. Both left because of Brexit albeit for different reasons. The return of roaming charges? Seriously? Theresa May, reasonably competent. Really? Surely if you are PM ( be you May or Cameron) you should come equipped to ride the storms that your position brings. I honestly think if Cameron hadn’t done a runner when the result wasn’t what he expected, Brexit would have been somewhat smoother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said: The return of roaming charges? Seriously? It is one example which has made travelling more expensive. It is another example of how once the UK left the EU businesses took advantage despite saying they wouldn't. Poor result for the consumer. 1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said: Theresa May, reasonably competent. Really? Compared to everything that followed she was. 1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said: Surely if you are PM ( be you May or Cameron) you should come equipped to ride the storms that your position brings. I honestly think if Cameron hadn’t done a runner when the result wasn’t what he expected, Brexit would have been somewhat smoother. Cameron could never have overseen Brexit, he would have suffered in the same way May did. Both were in the remain camp so anything they did wouldn't have been good enough for you or other brexit nuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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