Brexit Penny Dropping?

[manxman1980]

13 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Did you read my last paragraph about my post not being an endorsement of JRM in order to forestall comments such as yours?

I did read it and I shared my opinion and view which you seemingly don't like.

13 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Because I am capable of seeing another view it doesn’t mean I am on anyone’s “ side”

This is a forum for debate.

I despair sometimes.

Anyway:

JRM can, like all politicians robustly defend his position as you would expect. That shouldn’t be mistaken for impoliteness which is a different thing altogether.

What do I think of Tice? No real opinion. I don’t agree with a lot of what he says but that’s true of a lot of politicians for me.

As for Yaxley-Lennon, You may like him but I find him a pretty disgusting individual who should just crawl back under the rock from which he came. 

Alternatively you may just argue that he has a right to be heard in the context of a discussion about free speech.. However I wouldn’t take from that on its own as you are a supporter of his.

Do you see the difference?

Jumping to such conclusions is not helpful.

The difference is I would not seek to defend Yaxley-Lennon in any way not even on the basis of Free Speech.  He is on a par with that Islamic hate preacher in my eyes. 

Although I suppose you could argue they both have a right to be heard. Freedom of speech and all that.  

I would not make that argument but you might.

[The Voice of Reason]

5 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

I did read it and I shared my opinion and view which you seemingly don't like.

The difference is I would not seek to defend Yaxley-Lennon in any way not even on the basis of Free Speech.  He is on a par with that Islamic hate preacher in my eyes. 

Although I suppose you could argue they both have a right to be heard. Freedom of speech and all that.  

I would not make that argument but you might.

That’s not the difference. 
 

It’s not about defending an individual, it’s about defending a concept  ( say free speech).

You can’t say Mr Smith defends the idea of free speech, therefore he is a supporter of Yaxley - Lennon.

Similarly in the Liz Truss book launch event debate I was trying to discuss the issues around it ( whether the lettuce image was funny or crass, whether the event should have been cancelled or not curtailing free speech and whether she should have flounced off etc).
This somehow was interpreted as me in some way being a Liz Truss “supporter” when  nothing could be further from the truth. I think it’s a case of some people reading into a post what they want to read into it.

 

For what it’s worth though I agree with you re YL. Free speech has to have limits and he well exceeds those in my eyes too.

 

[manxman1980]

@The Voice of Reason but the only people you seem to speak out in support of are the likes of Farage, Yaxley-Lennon, Truss, Rees-Mogg etc.

I haven't seen you come out in the same manner for anyone on the left nor for groups like just stop oil.  In fact you seem.to be heavily critical of them.

Please start to show your balanced views then I might believe you.

Until then you come across as an apologist at best for those I listed in the first paragraph.  

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, manxman1980 said:

@The Voice of Reason but the only people you seem to speak out in support of are the likes of Farage, Yaxley-Lennon, Truss, Rees-Mogg etc.

I haven't seen you come out in the same manner for anyone on the left nor for groups like just stop oil.  In fact you seem.to be heavily critical of them.

Please start to show your balanced views then I might believe you.

Until then you come across as an apologist at best for those I listed in the first paragraph.  

I don’t think you’ve read a single word I’ve written on this.

When, in the name of God have I have expressed any support of Yaxley-Lennon. I’ve told you just a couple of postings or so ago what I think of him.

Frankly I find your assertion that I have spoken out in support of him highly offensive as well as being totally untrue.

Edited August 17 by The Voice of Reason

[Mr. Sausages]

Highly offensive 
 

 

[manxman1980]

2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

As for Yaxley-Lennon, You may like him but I find him a pretty disgusting individual who should just crawl back under the rock from which he came. 

@The Voice of Reason did you notice how I didn't spit my dummy out about your suggestion that I might like Yaxley-Lennon? 

That's because a simple look at my posts would show my disdain for him and his ilk.  

2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Alternatively you may just argue that he has a right to be heard in the context of a discussion about free speech.. 

You, however, propose that free speech should allow Yaxley-Lennon to spew his hatred.  You don't even qualify if with him having to be held accountable for the consequences of what he says.

I also note that you jumped straight to Yaxley-Lennon but ignored all the others in my post.

[The Voice of Reason]

59 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

@The Voice of Reason did you notice how I didn't spit my dummy out about your suggestion that I might like Yaxley-Lennon? 

That's because a simple look at my posts would show my disdain for him and his ilk.  

You, however, propose that free speech should allow Yaxley-Lennon to spew his hatred. 

 

That is the exact opposite of what I proposed.
 

You really don’t read my posts at all do you?

  From my post of a couple of hours ago:-

“For what it’s worth though I agree with you re YL. Free speech has to have limits and he well exceeds those in my eyes too.”

You didn’t “suggest”I might like him. You said I seem to speak out in support of people like him. Which is , putting it politely total nonsense

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

That is the exact opposite of what I proposed.
 

You really don’t read my posts at all do you?

  From my post of a couple of hours ago:-

“For what it’s worth though I agree with you re YL. Free speech has to have limits and he well exceeds those in my eyes too.”

You didn’t “suggest”I might like him. You said I seem to speak out in support of people like him. Which is , putting it politely total nonsense

I read your posts.

The post your are referencing came later.  I am however glad to see you think he oversteps the mark.  

For what it's worth he agrees with you on Brexit.

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, manxman1980 said:

I read your posts.

The post your are referencing came later.  I am however glad to see you think he oversteps the mark.  

For what it's worth he agrees with you on Brexit.

This is the post of mine I am referencing

For what it’s worth though I agree with you re YL. Free speech has to have limits and he well exceeds those in my eyes too.

which was posted at least an hour before yours of

You, however, propose that free speech should allow Yaxley-Lennon to spew his hatred. 
 

No matter. I know where I stand on racism even if you are a little confused.

I was demonstrating with the Anti Nazi League against Tyndall and his NF bully boys while you were probably still in nappies.

[P.K.]

9 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

That’s not the difference. 
 

It’s not about defending an individual, it’s about defending a concept  ( say free speech).

You can’t say Mr Smith defends the idea of free speech, therefore he is a supporter of Yaxley - Lennon.

Similarly in the Liz Truss book launch event debate I was trying to discuss the issues around it ( whether the lettuce image was funny or crass, whether the event should have been cancelled or not curtailing free speech and whether she should have flounced off etc).
This somehow was interpreted as me in some way being a Liz Truss “supporter” when  nothing could be further from the truth. I think it’s a case of some people reading into a post what they want to read into it.

You don't suppose that's because you've ended up in a pissing contest about issues that are purely subjective..?

You know what, I believe you have...

[The Voice of Reason]

9 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

@The Voice of Reason but the only people you seem to speak out in support of are the likes of Farage, Yaxley-Lennon, Truss, Rees-Mogg etc.

I haven't seen you come out in the same manner for anyone on the left nor for groups like just stop oil.  In fact you seem.to be heavily critical of them.

Please start to show your balanced views then I might believe you.

Until then you come across as an apologist at best for those I listed in the first paragraph.  

OK as a postscript to all this nonsense, let’s head for the Angela Rainer thread in International News which I instigated.

In which I expressed my admiration for her and also raised the  then current ( now resolved) issue in a non judgmental way about whether or not CGT should have been paid on the sale of the council house she had previously bought. Whether she was right to not comment on it etc. ie how she dealt with it, and the tactics she employed in the face of a media mini storm). It was a legitimate subject for debate.

This raised a number of issues and many useful contributions ( the usual snarky, but occasionally helpful ones from John W of course).

It was an interesting debate. There were no personal attacks on her. One person I think made an inappropriate comment on the size of her breasts but you’ll always get that unfortunately.

I recommend that you revisit this thread as an example of how MF can operate properly as a debating chamber 
 

 

Edited August 17 by The Voice of Reason

[manxman1980]

13 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

OK as a postscript to all this nonsense, let’s head for the Angela Rainer thread in International News which I instigated.

In which I expressed my admiration for her and also raised the  then current ( now resolved) issue in a non judgmental way about whether or not CGT should have been paid on the sale of the council house she had previously bought. Whether she was right to not comment on it etc. ie how she dealt with it, and the tactics she employed in the face of a media mini storm). It was a legitimate subject for debate.

This raised a number of issues and many useful contributions ( the usual snarky, but occasionally helpful ones from John W of course).

It was an interesting debate. There were no personal attacks on her. One person I think made an inappropriate comment on the size of her breasts but you’ll always get that unfortunately.

I recommend that you revisit this thread as an example of how MF can operate properly as a debating chamber 
 

 

Could you at least spell her name correctly? 😉

[The Voice of Reason]

27 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Could you at least spell her name correctly? 😉

Yes I made a mistake, or maybe it was auto correct or whatever. It doesn’t really matter.

Did you revisit the thread as suggested.? 

And if you did have you come to the realisation that every exchange on this forum doesn’t have to be adversarial. Ideas can be exchanged without resorting to insults or imputing negative intent to your fellow contributors. You may even learn from others.
 

 

[manxman1980]

51 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Yes I made a mistake, or maybe it was auto correct or whatever. It doesn’t really matter.

Did you revisit the thread as suggested.? 

And if you did have you come to the realisation that every exchange on this forum doesn’t have to be adversarial. Ideas can be exchanged without resorting to insults or imputing negative intent to your fellow contributors. You may even learn from others.
 

 

I don't think I have ever insulted you. 

I haven't reread the thread because I could not find one about Angela Rainer 😉😉

[The Voice of Reason]

41 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

I don't think I have ever insulted you. 

I haven't reread the thread because I could not find one about Angela Rainer 😉😉

If you insist about being so childish about this look for Angela Rayner thread on this,  the International News section . Page 2, about 5 topics down that should help.

Be interested in your observations 

Edited August 17 by The Voice of Reason