woolley Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 On 8/21/2024 at 11:09 AM, RecklessAbandon said: So having to follow more rules from the EU than before is "self determination"? Strange logic there. Not at all. If we travel to countries under its jurisdiction then we expect to adhere to its rules, just as we would when travelling anywhere in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 1 hour ago, woolley said: Not at all. If we travel to countries under its jurisdiction then we expect to adhere to its rules, just as we would when travelling anywhere in the world. But just to be clear, its an additional rule that didn't use to apply. As in more rules, with the source being the EU. Therefore - more rules from the EU than before (when we were part of the determination process). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 15 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said: But just to be clear, its an additional rule that didn't use to apply. As in more rules, with the source being the EU. Therefore - more rules from the EU than before (when we were part of the determination process). No. Then we were subject to a never ending torrent of legislation emanating from the EU that applied to the territory of the UK, and had to be nodded through the UK Parliament without demur because EU legislation (including that adopted by QMV) was supreme. This is no longer the case. Good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 4 minutes ago, woolley said: was supreme. Not even remotely true. Nice revisionism though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 Just now, RecklessAbandon said: Not even remotely true. Nice revisionism though. Absolutely true. EU Law is supreme in the EU. It's a fact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) 6 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said: Not even remotely true. Nice revisionism though. From the horse's mouth: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/primacy-of-eu-law-precedence-supremacy.html Edited August 23 by woolley 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) 20 minutes ago, woolley said: From the horse's mouth: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/primacy-of-eu-law-precedence-supremacy.html If it was supreme, how did we leave? Also: "It should be noted that the primacy of EU law only applies where Member States have ceded sovereignty to the EU – in fields such as the single market, environment, transport, etc. However, it does not apply in areas such as education, culture or tourism." So Supreme but only in areas where its allowed to be Supreme - doesn't sound as all encompassing as you are trying to portray it. Edited August 23 by RecklessAbandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, RecklessAbandon said: If it was supreme, how did we leave? Also: "It should be noted that the primacy of EU law only applies where Member States have ceded sovereignty to the EU – in fields such as the single market, environment, transport, etc. However, it does not apply in areas such as education, culture or tourism." So Supreme but only in areas where it’s allowed to be Supreme - doesn't sound as all encompassing as you are trying to portray it. Any surrender to the primacy of EU law is ceding sovereignty to it. How can it be any different? Being half pregnant and all that. End of. The UK dodged a bullet as a result of Brexit with the EU “ ever closer union” ambition. Edited August 23 by The Voice of Reason Addition of last paragraph. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 56 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: The UK dodged a bullet as a result of Brexit with the EU “ ever closer union” ambition. That will be why all the other member states are following the UK's lead. Oh, errr hang on... The UK didn't leave the EU because of "ever closer union" - whatever that is? It left because of "immigration" and everyone knows it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Oh, errr hang on... The UK didn't leave the EU because of "ever closer union" - whatever that is? It should be obvious to everyone, including you , what that is. It’s not hard to understand. Most wouldn’t have a problem interpreting what that phrase means. And that is why it was rejected by the UK in the Brexit vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 56 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: It should be obvious to everyone, including you , what that is. It’s not hard to understand. Most wouldn’t have a problem interpreting what that phrase means. And that is why it was rejected by the UK in the Brexit vote. The words "wind" and "pissing" spring to mind here. I'm sure you remember in the brexit vote that "sovrinty" came third. Why don't you explain how it is that in the six years since the UK's referendum no other EU members have followed suit? If leaving the EU is so wonderful surely others would have done the same by now... I wonder why they haven't... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 From Euractiv:- Two weeks in office, Starmer said he wants to “fire the starting gun” on resetting the UK’s troubled relationship with Europe, with an initial focus on building links concerning security issues and fighting against illicit migration. “Under my leadership, Britain will be a friend and a partner, ready to work with you, not part of the European Union, but very much part of Europe,” said Starmer in his remarks at the opening session of the summit. “We want to work with all of you to reset relationships, rediscover our common interest and renew the bonds of trust and friendship that brighten the fabric of European Life,” the Labour leader told his counterparts.” This seems to very much echo the views of those who voted for Brexit, who, whilst not wanting to cede sovereignty to the EU, want to work as partners in areas of mutual interest and concern Let’s hope he can deliver. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 8 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: This seems to very much echo the views of those who voted for Brexit, who, whilst not wanting to cede sovereignty to the EU, want to work as partners in areas of mutual interest and concern Let’s hope he can deliver. Does it? After all the talks of a "hard" brexit and animosity towards the EU are you sure this is what every Brexit voter wanted? Some of the ideas that have been floated include freedom of movement for the under 30's and rejoining some pan European bodies. I somehow doubt either of those will go down well with all Brexit voters. I do agree that Starmers approach to the EU is much more positive and encouraging than the child like attitude seen by various members of the Conservative Party. It feels like the grown ups are back in charge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: Does it? After all the talks of a "hard" brexit and animosity towards the EU are you sure this is what every Brexit voter wanted? Some of the ideas that have been floated include freedom of movement for the under 30's and rejoining some pan European bodies. I somehow doubt either of those will go down well with all Brexit voters. I do agree that Starmers approach to the EU is much more positive and encouraging than the child like attitude seen by various members of the Conservative Party. It feels like the grown ups are back in charge. Yes I believe it does for the majority There was always going to be friction between the Conservative Government and the EU. There was animosity and child like behaviour from the EU ( M. Barnier and his friends ) who saw the Tories as being responsible for Brexit, notwithstanding that it was decided in a democratic referendum. Now each party is free to negotiate their relationship with each other in a mutually beneficial way. The UK not being dragged in directions it does not want to go. On a side note if this is to include freedom of movement why is it being floated exclusively for the under 30’s? I just find that curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 18 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: On a side note if this is to include freedom of movement why is it being floated exclusively for the under 30’s? I just find that curious. The under 30s appear to unanimously want back into the EU so it's probably just a holding pattern strategy while the remaining gammon die off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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