Brexit Penny Dropping?

[Jarndyce]

49 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

There was animosity and child like behaviour from the EU ( M. Barnier and his friends ) who saw the Tories as being responsible for Brexit, notwithstanding that it was decided in a democratic referendum.

I recognise the futility of the following argument - but, since Cameron called the democratic referendum, the Tories are demonstrably responsible for Brexit.

Edited August 29 by Jarndyce
Clarification

[The Voice of Reason]

3 hours ago, La Colombe said:

The under 30s appear to unanimously want back into the EU so it's probably just a holding pattern strategy while the remaining gammon die off. 

Not quite unanimous 

Of those aged 18 -24, 27% voted leave

Of those aged 25 - 34, 38% voted leave

( source BBC)

Of course these groups had relatively low turnouts in the referendum.

Perhaps if enough of them could have put their mobile phones and “devices” down for long enough to get off their arses and vote, we may have had a different result and still be in the EU. But they’d rather just sit there and moan about how their lives have been taken from them, like second rate Just Stop Oil protesters!

Edited August 29 by The Voice of Reason
Small insignificant amendment

[Cambon]

4 hours ago, La Colombe said:

The under 30s appear to unanimously want back into the EU so it's probably just a holding pattern strategy while the remaining gammon die off. 

Actually the idea is something to do with further education. Many Europeans want to study in UK, particularly to enhance language skills.
Nothing to do with meat production. 

[manxman1980]

12 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Yes I believe it does for the majority

I can think of a few Brexiteers who would strongly disagree with you and who will see the actions by Starmer as a "betrayal".

12 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

There was always going to be friction between the Conservative  Government and the EU.

Why?  There didn't have to be as they did have some sensible MP's back then.  They could have negotiated a deal sensibly instead of all those "red lines". 

Once Johnson became PM then it was always going to be childish given the lies he had written in his time as a journalist. 

12 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

There was animosity and child like behaviour from the EU ( M. Barnier and his friends ) who saw the Tories as being responsible for Brexit, notwithstanding that it was decided in a democratic referendum.

No, the EU simply told the UK that if it was leaving then it was not going to get any special benefits and exemptions.  

The UK didn't want to be like Denamrk for instance. 

12 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Now each party is free to negotiate their relationship with each other in a mutually beneficial way. The UK not being dragged in directions it does not want to go.

They always were unless you are referring to the Tory party being so unstable and tearing itself apart.

12 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

On a side note if this is to include freedom of movement why is it being floated exclusively for the under 30’s? I just find that curious.

The answer is partly below but I also imagine that economically active people from the EU would be welcomed with open arms by certain industries.

Particularly if it doesn't require messing about with Sponsorship Licenses. 

6 hours ago, Cambon said:

Actually the idea is something to do with further education. Many Europeans want to study in UK, particularly to enhance language skills.
Nothing to do with meat production. 

I wouldn't count meat production out...  nor harvesting fruit and vegetables,  or working in hospitality or construction or driving jobs.

Education will be a big selling point but I doubt any agreement would hinder someone's ability to have a job.

[woolley]

12 hours ago, La Colombe said:

The under 30s appear to unanimously want back into the EU so it's probably just a holding pattern strategy while the remaining gammon die off. 

It doesn't suit the powers that be in the UK, so it won't happen. Having seen the way it went over the previous half century, they won't want to cede power to that extent again. Co-operation is fine. Diktat from Brussels, not fine. Doesn't matter what wet behind the ears kids think - when did it ever?

[Bobbie Bobster]

26 minutes ago, woolley said:

Doesn't matter what wet behind the ears kids think - when did it ever?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

50 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

I can think of a few Brexiteers who would strongly disagree with you and who will see the actions by Starmer as a "betrayal".

( A few, who exactly?) Well not me. You seem to imply that those who don’t want to be dictated to by the EU don’t want to have anything to do with our European neighbours. No, let’s have mutual cooperation.That is not “ betrayal”. It’s advancement.

It’s thinking like that causes and perpetuates division. So let’s have a more positive mindset.
 

 

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

( A few, who exactly?) Well not me.

Why the paranoia?  If I meant you I would have said you.

I am not going to name people on here.

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

You seem to imply that those who don’t want to be dictated to by the EU don’t want to have anything to do with our European neighbours. No, let’s have mutual cooperation.That is not “ betrayal”. It’s advancement.

Yet to deal with the EU you will find that they will insist you play by their rules.

Yes, there are areas where mutual cooperation is possible without being "dictated" too but they are limited areas.

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

It’s thinking like that causes and perpetuates division. So let’s have a more positive mindset.

It's you that is seeing division.  I am fully on board for closer links to the EU.

[P.K.]

3 hours ago, woolley said:

It doesn't suit the powers that be in the UK, so it won't happen. Having seen the way it went over the previous half century, they won't want to cede power to that extent again. Co-operation is fine. Diktat from Brussels, not fine. Doesn't matter what wet behind the ears kids think - when did it ever?

When did it ever matter?

Try 2021 when the voting age in the island was reduced to 16. According to the ridiculous IOMG splurge the first "country" in Western Europe to do so. Like any proper country in Western Europe would actually give a flying about what happens in Tinpotland...

However they clearly hadn't thought it through in that anyone standing on a ticket of free iPhone upgrades for 16-18 yos and less geography homework would see them elected irrespective of ability. That's called irony by the way...

[John Wright]

5 hours ago, P.K. said:

Try 2021

Try 2006. 

[P.K.]

2 hours ago, John Wright said:

Try 2006. 

Memory is going.

Or maybe it's the heat, the flies and those damn drums...

[manxman1980]

2 hours ago, John Wright said:

Try 2006. 

 

37 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Memory is going.

Or maybe it's the heat, the flies and those damn drums...

If I am honest I would have sworn I voted on the Isle of Man before the age of 18.  Maybe it was just that the election came shortly after I turned 18.

Since I was able to vote I have never failed to vote in any election so not all young people aren't interested.

[woolley]

22 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

It's you that is seeing division.  I am fully on board for closer links to the EU.

Me too. Provided it's negotiated for mutual benefit and no preconditions dictated by either side.

[woolley]

21 hours ago, P.K. said:

When did it ever matter?

Try 2021 when the voting age in the island was reduced to 16. According to the ridiculous IOMG splurge the first "country" in Western Europe to do so. Like any proper country in Western Europe would actually give a flying about what happens in Tinpotland...

However they clearly hadn't thought it through in that anyone standing on a ticket of free iPhone upgrades for 16-18 yos and less geography homework would see them elected irrespective of ability. That's called irony by the way...

Gimmick.

[P.K.]

8 hours ago, woolley said:

Gimmick.

Agreed.