P.K. Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said: You don’t need me to tell you you’re trying to change the subject, that being your “sovrinty” issue. You may not be able to grasp the concept but it seems the ex Chief Brexit negotiator on the EU side finally has. Don't be daft. I think "Frexit" would be absolutely hilarious. What with the UK's Third Country Trading Status goods having to transit Third Country Trading Status France with then two borders having to be crossed rather than one. And we think Brexit is a clusterfuck! Which it undoubtedly is... "C'est la vie" as they say. Looking forward to seeing what transpires next! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 @The Voice of Reason I wondered where you had gone. Did you ever resolve the conundrum of Spain sovereignty? As for Barnier, you couldn't have been paying attention. Barnier was well known for his rightwing views. He now wants to return to France and sees a route to power by taking an anti-immigration stance. Good luck getting France to get any "illegal" migrants back now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 (edited) 56 minutes ago, P.K. said: Don't be daft. I think "Frexit" would be absolutely hilarious. Do you really? I doubt it would happen any time soon. But if France were to leave the EU, ( and I don’t think it would) it takes a special sort of European Union supporter to describe it potentially happening as “ absolutely hilarious “ I think it would be more likely to kill off the whole European superstate project. What is that without France and the UK? It may limp on for a bit in a reduced form ( Germany and her mates) but the ramifications would be tremendous. More so than when the UK voted to leave. France being one of the architects of this in its earliest form. Edited September 5 by The Voice of Reason Addition of last para Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 (edited) On 9/5/2024 at 9:53 AM, RecklessAbandon said: If Brexiteers/Trumpets continue to display such staggering levels of Dunning Kruger mental gymnastics, then they should continue to be called out for it. You do watch the goings on in the EU, I take it? Edited September 6 by woolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 3 hours ago, P.K. said: Who can forget that famous photograph of Barnier and his team on one side of the table with their piles of prep in front of them and on the other side was Davis and his team with nothing but sickly grins. You just knew from that one tableau that brexit was going to be a shambles for the UK. And so it proved... A staged ambush for the hard of thinking. You really believe that the nuts and bolts of international treaties are put together at ministerial level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 3 hours ago, P.K. said: The far right resurgence in Europe is not exactly "news" now is it? Fortunately in France they recognise the dangers of the far right and rallied to keep them out of power. But dangerously they are gaining ground with Hungary, Italy, Finland, Slovakia, the Czech Republic and Croatia having right wing governments and surprisingly support now appearing in Germany as well. Not good. Not good at all. But thats populist politics for you... Yep. The wheels are coming off politically, socially and economically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: @The Voice of Reason I wondered where you had gone. Did you ever resolve the conundrum of Spain sovereignty? As for Barnier, you couldn't have been paying attention. Barnier was well known for his rightwing views. He now wants to return to France and sees a route to power by taking an anti-immigration stance. Good luck getting France to get any "illegal" migrants back now. I'm intrigued about the conundrum of Spanish sovereignty. Is there one? Barnier just blows with the wind depending on who is his current paymaster. As for illegal migration, the French are quite right. It's entirely Britain's fault for creating a pull factor. It must be hell on wheels living near the coast in Northern France. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said: Do you really? I doubt it would happen any time soon. But if France were to leave the EU, ( and I don’t think it would) it takes a special sort of European Union supporter to describe it potentially happening as “ absolutely hilarious “ I think it would be more likely to kill off the whole European superstate project. What is that without France and the UK? It may limp on for a bit in a reduced form ( Germany and her mates) but the ramifications would be tremendous. More so than when the UK voted to leave. France being one of the architects of this in its earliest form. Germany is not in the best of health due to years of crazy policies on all fronts, and will not be keen on picking up even more of the bill for the EU gravy train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 9 hours ago, woolley said: Germany is not in the best of health due to years of crazy policies on all fronts, and will not be keen on picking up even more of the bill for the EU gravy train. I've noticed that brexiteers like to pick up on Germany's woes as a cautionary tale. However they always fail to mention how Germany, depending on the measure, has become either the fourth or third largest economy on the planet. Meanwhile the UK has slipped from fifth to sixth. Yes, there's a cautionary tale there all right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 9 hours ago, woolley said: A staged ambush for the hard of thinking. You really believe that the nuts and bolts of international treaties are put together at ministerial level? You can't disguise the facts that the UK was unprepared for brexit and that Davis was completely out of his depth. Absolutely lamentable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 2 hours ago, P.K. said: I've noticed that brexiteers like to pick up on Germany's woes as a cautionary tale. However they always fail to mention how Germany, depending on the measure, has become either the fourth or third largest economy on the planet. Meanwhile the UK has slipped from fifth to sixth. Yes, there's a cautionary tale there all right... You might want to update your outlook on Germany. No denying it's been the powerhouse of Europe for decades, but it's the portents that aren't good. Merkel putting all the eggs in the cheap Russian gas basket was a strategic error that's come home to roost in a big way. Now it's gone they're struggling. I take no pleasure, incidentally. It's quite worrying because I've dealt with German companies for years and invested in them too. Suddenly, the heavy industries are becoming uncompetitive, and the established tech is looking very dated. Needs a massive kick up the arse from somewhere, and I'm not sure where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 2 hours ago, P.K. said: You can't disguise the facts that the UK was unprepared for brexit and that Davis was completely out of his depth. Absolutely lamentable... Certainly should have been dealt with better and more speedily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 6 minutes ago, woolley said: Certainly should have been dealt with better and more speedily. They had top men on it...top men. Oh wait, no they didn't. They turned up after doing their homework on the school bus hoping to blag the exam and then were confused when they got an F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 2 hours ago, woolley said: You might want to update your outlook on Germany. No denying it's been the powerhouse of Europe for decades, but it's the portents that aren't good. Merkel putting all the eggs in the cheap Russian gas basket was a strategic error that's come home to roost in a big way. Now it's gone they're struggling. I take no pleasure, incidentally. It's quite worrying because I've dealt with German companies for years and invested in them too. Suddenly, the heavy industries are becoming uncompetitive, and the established tech is looking very dated. Needs a massive kick up the arse from somewhere, and I'm not sure where. To their credit the Germans converted from Russian energy PDQ. It obviously came at a price though. However their manufacturers are still exporting by using that sneaky Tuetonic trick of making decent stuff folks want to buy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 1 minute ago, P.K. said: To their credit the Germans converted from Russian energy PDQ. It obviously came at a price though. However their manufacturers are still exporting by using that sneaky Tuetonic trick of making decent stuff folks want to buy... That's the conventional view of decades, but things change. The price of alternative energy is crippling them, and they've slid back to taking some Russian gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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