Brexit Penny Dropping?

[manxman1980]

21 hours ago, woolley said:

You might want to update your outlook on Germany. No denying it's been the powerhouse of Europe for decades, but it's the portents that aren't good. Merkel putting all the eggs in the cheap Russian gas basket was a strategic error that's come home to roost in a big way. Now it's gone they're struggling.

I take no pleasure, incidentally. It's quite worrying because I've dealt with German companies for years and invested in them too. Suddenly, the heavy industries are becoming uncompetitive, and the established tech is looking very dated. Needs a massive kick up the arse from somewhere, and I'm not sure where.

One thing is for sure, the UK isn't in a position to take advantage of any decline in Germany.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/sep/07/sixth-generation-uk-wire-maker-blames-brexit-shredding-business

The data in that report is not good for UK manufacturing, which has been struggling for a long time, but has been further damaged by Brexit.

UK heavy industry has been decimated (yes, pre-Brexit before you say it) and the country is overly reliant on imports.

[woolley]

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

One thing is for sure, the UK isn't in a position to take advantage of any decline in Germany.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/sep/07/sixth-generation-uk-wire-maker-blames-brexit-shredding-business

The data in that report is not good for UK manufacturing, which has been struggling for a long time, but has been further damaged by Brexit.

UK heavy industry has been decimated (yes, pre-Brexit before you say it) and the country is overly reliant on imports.

I always baulk at the modern usage of "decimate". In my schooldays it meant "to reduce by one tenth", and obviously UK manufacturing has reduced by much more than that in my lifetime. I appreciate that "decimate" has grown legs, as words often do, and shoved other words like "devastate" and even "destroyed" aside. This usage of it still curls my lip though.

As you say, manufacturing has been struggling for a long time through lack of investment over many years, and capital incentives should be beefed up to address it. Sadly, its been too easy to buy cheap from the other side of the world and grow fat profiting from the difference. Shortsighted in the extreme.

Having said that, though, the figures have held up remarkably well despite the naysayers telling us that the sky would fall in the very next day after a Brexit vote.

[John Wright]

9 minutes ago, woolley said:

I always baulk at the modern usage of "decimate". In my schooldays it meant "to reduce by one tenth",

Did it ever mean to reduce by 10%, ie to 90% of the original? Or did, and does, it meant to reduce by 90% to 10% of the original?

[woolley]

31 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Did it ever mean to reduce by 10%, ie to 90% of the original? Or did, and does, it meant to reduce by 90% to 10% of the original?

My lip's curling again.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/the-original-definition-of-decimate

Edited September 7 by woolley

[P.K.]

I thought it was from the Roman Legions.

The basic unit in the legion consisted of 8 men known as a contuburnium (Latin: tent-sharing). If they fucked-up then the centurian could order a "decimation" where seven members of those sharing a tent would have to beat the eighth member to death. So that's 12.5%.

The same could be done to an entire century but iirc the number was decided by the Legate.

Incidentally when people think of a roman legion led by a Centurian they tend to think that a century means 100 ergo there are 100 men in a legion. Actually a legion consisted of  Centurian, his 2-i-c rank Optio, a Standard Bearer and a Scribe (clerk) plus ten Contuburniams of eight men. So the total is 84.

Good job Wisden does things differently...!

[manxman1980]

4 hours ago, woolley said:

I always baulk at the modern usage of "decimate". In my schooldays it meant "to reduce by one tenth", and obviously UK manufacturing has reduced by much more than that in my lifetime. I appreciate that "decimate" has grown legs, as words often do, and shoved other words like "devastate" and even "destroyed" aside. This usage of it still curls my lip though.

Nice distraction technique.  You may be a language snob but the use of English and the meaning of words change over time.

4 hours ago, woolley said:

As you say, manufacturing has been struggling for a long time through lack of investment over many years, and capital incentives should be beefed up to address it. Sadly, its been too easy to buy cheap from the other side of the world and grow fat profiting from the difference. Shortsighted in the extreme.

Indeed...

4 hours ago, woolley said:

Having said that, though, the figures have held up remarkably well despite the naysayers telling us that the sky would fall in the very next day after a Brexit vote.

Just as it is shortsighted to say that the UK has held up so far.  That report has highlighted the additional damage that Brexit has done to UK manufacturing. 

Put simply, brexit made it worse not better for UK manufacturing.  

Has brexit brought about the apocalypse?  No.

Has it delivered sunlit uploads? No

Has it made life better in the UK? Arguably not but I accept that depends what you value.  The economy is generally worse, and whilst you will now doubt say "fastest growing" it is doing so from a lower starting point.

Brexit has made many things much more inconvenient and more expensive especially if you trade with the EU.

[The Voice of Reason]

To septimate means to reduce something by a seventh.

Septimation is the act of doing that.

To decimate therefore is, as I’ve always been taught and always believed, is to reduce something by a tenth.

Yes people have played fast and loose with that definition but it doesn’t mean it’s right.

[P.K.]

10 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

To decimate therefore is, as I’ve always been taught and always believed, is to reduce something by a tenth.

Yes people have played fast and loose with that definition but it doesn’t mean it’s right.

Decimate was the term used to punish a legion which could be one tenth but they also used the term to reduce a contuburnium by one eighth.

So to me it's more used as a term rather than a set amount...

[manxman1980]

13 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

To septimate means to reduce something by a seventh.

Septimation is the act of doing that.

To decimate therefore is, as I’ve always been taught and always believed, is to reduce something by a tenth.

Yes people have played fast and loose with that definition but it doesn’t mean it’s right.

Any thoughts yet on how Spain, a member of the EU,  can be allowed to have it's own laws on bull fighting? 

As for the use of language, it changes, get over it...

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/decimate

 

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

Any thoughts yet on how Spain, a member of the EU,  can be allowed to have it's own laws on bull fighting? 

 

 

They can, if there is no conflict between their domestic law and EU law, in which case EU law would be supreme. I thought we’d sorted all this a while ago.
 

It’s not a very nice practice or “sport” though is it?

[The Voice of Reason]

3 hours ago, P.K. said:

Decimate was the term used to punish a legion which could be one tenth but they also used the term to reduce a contuburnium by one eighth.

So to me it's more used as a term rather than a set amount...

Well to you maybe. But it does have a specific meaning.

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

They can, if there is no conflict between their domestic law and EU law, in which case EU law would be supreme. I thought we’d sorted all this a while ago.

Okay, so you are saying that an EU member state has the sovereignty to decide on domestic law and the EU isn't going to legislate to outlaw bull fighting as much as I agree with your next statement.

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

It’s not a very nice practice or “sport” though is it?

 

[P.K.]

3 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

They can, if there is no conflict between their domestic law and EU law, in which case EU law would be supreme. I thought we’d sorted all this a while ago.

The idea that the EU would be stupid enough to try and enforce a change of culture is as far-fetched as "sovrinty" being the main reason for the UK leaving the EU.

And there's the rub for all those paranoid about "ever closer union" or whatever. The EU would never be stupid enough to try and push the envelope knowing it was unacceptable to the entities. As we know from over forty years of membership during which the UK absolutely thrived...

Bit of a laugh tomorrow. That nice Keir Starmer is on Kuenssburg. I can't make my mind up if Kuenssburg really is dreadfully right wing or if she's just career-minded and pandering to Bozo's tory placemen in the Beeb. After all, Bozo's giving cronies top BBC jobs caused an exodus of talent leaving lots of gaps to be filled by the mediocre remnant...

[P.K.]

Stockport assistant Andy Mangan denied Real Madrid move due to Brexit regulations

The Stockport assistant coach Andy Mangan has been denied a move to Real Madrid after being refused a work permit. A journeyman striker as a player, Mangan has developed a burgeoning reputation as a coach. He had hoped to swap League One for working under Carlo Ancelotti in the Champions League but because of Brexit regulations his application was rejected. Acquiring a work permit to work in Spain can take up to nine months.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/sep/10/stockport-coach-andy-mangan-real-madrid-football

[The Voice of Reason]

4 hours ago, P.K. said:

Stockport assistant Andy Mangan denied Real Madrid move due to Brexit regulations

The Stockport assistant coach Andy Mangan has been denied a move to Real Madrid after being refused a work permit. A journeyman striker as a player, Mangan has developed a burgeoning reputation as a coach. He had hoped to swap League One for working under Carlo Ancelotti in the Champions League but because of Brexit regulations his application was rejected. Acquiring a work permit to work in Spain can take up to nine months.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/sep/10/stockport-coach-andy-mangan-real-madrid-football

Again and again you seem to think that Brexit doesn’t mean that things won’t change. It’s a new environment .

You can’t just waltz into a new job in the USA or America without going through hoops. The same is now true of the EU.

Would you care to explain the “Brexit regulations “ that meant his work permit application was rejected. These aren’t really spelt out in the article.

There are plenty of European footballers plying their trade in the English Premier league ( Rodri and Dias are just a couple that immediately spring to mind) and how are Erik Ten Hag from Holland and Spaniard Pep Guardiola, amongst others managing teams in the the same league?  The Italian Carlo Ancelotti mentioned in the article didn’t seem to have any problems with getting a work permit to manage Everton.

Not to mention all the EU players and managers employed in  the lower leagues.

Do the same rules not apply from people getting jobs in the UK from the EU to those in the UK seeking employment in the EU, like Mangan?

Oh and let’s not forget the Englishman Jude Bellingham playing for Real Madrid. Somehow he seems to have avoided these “ Brexit regulations “

Oh, and Harry Kane the Englishman who moved from Tottenham Hotspur to Bayern Munich. A move which appeared seamless

Edited September 10 by The Voice of Reason
Spelling mistake and addition of the bit about Ancelotti and Jude Bellin