Brexit Penny Dropping?

[The Voice of Reason]

7 hours ago, P.K. said:

That's a bit harsh.

Lot's of folks would baulk at being expected to read the nonsense printed by The Telegraph...

As opposed to your favorite comic, the Guardian.

Ah but the Guardian isn’t owned by a media mogul is it?

So they have no agenda whatsoever. No one could ever accuse them of left wing bias surely? Could they?

[quilp]

10 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

As opposed to your favorite comic, the Guardian.

Ah but the Guardian isn’t owned by a media mogul is it?

So they have no agenda whatsoever. No one could ever accuse them of left wing bias surely? Could they?

It's not a newspaper, it's a viewspaper, a bible of liberal delight its content swelled with parables of lefty, virtue-signalling confirmation bias and where comment isn't really free. Without it, some of Its devotees might have trouble having a genuine opinion of their own.

Other than that it's ok, I read it every day. Sports page is good, its cricket and rugger coverage some of the finest in print.

The only other outstanding part worth a mention is the commenable photographic section.

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

As opposed to your favorite comic, the Guardian.

Ah but the Guardian isn’t owned by a media mogul is it?

So they have no agenda whatsoever. No one could ever accuse them of left wing bias surely? Could they?

It depends entirely on how right wing you are.

The more you lean towards fascism, the more lefty you will think the Guardian and the BBC are.

Simple as...

[Eris]

On 7/30/2022 at 2:17 PM, P.K. said:

Some facts about the 160k tory members and how they could choose someone like Bozo:

63% Male

39% over 65 yo

6% under 24 yo

52% live in London & the SE

80% are in the top three socio-economic tiers.

What they care about in order of importance. Of course, you need to be aware that these people think the BBC is a nest of communist vipers and everything in the Telegraph, the Daily Mail and the Express is absolutely true:

Winning the next General Election          56%

Immigration                                               48%

Cost of Living                                            40%

Brexit                                                          40%

Cutting Taxes                                             30%

Defence                                                      30%

Net Zero                                                        4%

So all Liz Truss had to say was "tax cuts" and "more Rwandas" etc and she will be PM.

There was a project on UK Party Membership. The results can be found here:

https://esrcpartymembersprojectorg.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/grassroots-pmp_final.pdf

The tory graphics make for sobering reading....

 

IMO the ONLY thing that saw the massive Tory win in the last GE was the promise to deliver BREXIT.  It was a defacto second referendum.  Tragically the Tory party from Johnson up has deliberately failed to deliver what they promised.  I can not see another Tory government (unless in coalition) for many years especially as a result of the shocking mismanagement of the UK economy. The disgusting World Economic Forum have a great deal to answer for.

[manxman1980]

49 minutes ago, Eris said:

IMO the ONLY thing that saw the massive Tory win in the last GE was the promise to deliver BREXIT. 

Corbyn was a massive factor in that election too and he also supported Brexit.

There was no credible opposition for people to get behind.

[Eris]

9 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Corbyn was a massive factor in that election too and he also supported Brexit.

There was no credible opposition for people to get behind.

Corbyn was certainly a factor but as for his stance on BREXIT (or for that matter anything) I believe the electorate had zero confidence one way or another.  Let's face it, a pig with "I'll deliver BREXIT!" would have been successful as was proven to be the case with Johnson leading the Tory party.

[manxman1980]

3 hours ago, Eris said:

Corbyn was certainly a factor but as for his stance on BREXIT (or for that matter anything) I believe the electorate had zero confidence one way or another.  Let's face it, a pig with "I'll deliver BREXIT!" would have been successful as was proven to be the case with Johnson leading the Tory party.

The problem was Corbyn as brexiteer and with his socialist policies meant that Tory remainers had to turn to smaller parties if they wanted to vote to try and stop Brexit. 

Corbyn also isolated many of the core Labour voters and even Brexit supporting Labour voters probably voted Tory because they didn't wany Corbyn as PM.

[Eris]

2 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

The problem was Corbyn as brexiteer and with his socialist policies meant that Tory remainers had to turn to smaller parties if they wanted to vote to try and stop Brexit. 

Corbyn also isolated many of the core Labour voters and even Brexit supporting Labour voters probably voted Tory because they didn't wany Corbyn as PM.

I respectfully disagree with your analysis and conclusions.

[manxman1980]

1 minute ago, Eris said:

I respectfully disagree with your analysis and conclusions.

That's fine but Corbyn was never going to lead the Labour Party to Government due to his policies and the portrayal of him in the media.

I know many long-term Labour supporters who abandoned the Party due to Corbyn and Momentum.  They mostly turned to the Lib Dems or Green Party especially those who are remainers.

Once Farage's Party stepped aside it just left the way clear for the Tory Party.

Remain voters were split between Labour, Greens and  Lib Dems.

[P.K.]

Corbyn suffered from what I like to term as "The Kinnochio Effect"

[quilp]

34 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Remain voters were split between Labour, Greens and  Lib Dems.

So no remainers at all in those big bad scary Tories?

Lol... 

[manxman1980]

55 minutes ago, quilp said:

So no remainers at all in those big bad scary Tories?

Lol... 

I had already referred to Tory Remainers who sure as hell would not vote for a Labour Party led by Corbyn who himself was a Brexiteer.

Those Tory Remainers would either have stuck with the Tories because they are Tories or have done the same as other remainers and split the votes over smaller parties.

What appears to have happened is brexiteers got behind Johnson as they didn't like or trust Corbyn. 

Remainers split their votes amongst other parties because there was no one party that they could vote for. 

I still don't believe that the last election was a rerun of the referendum as there were significant other factors at play.

[Eris]

1 hour ago, manxman1980 said:

I had already referred to Tory Remainers who sure as hell would not vote for a Labour Party led by Corbyn who himself was a Brexiteer.

Those Tory Remainers would either have stuck with the Tories because they are Tories or have done the same as other remainers and split the votes over smaller parties.

What appears to have happened is brexiteers got behind Johnson as they didn't like or trust Corbyn. 

Remainers split their votes amongst other parties because there was no one party that they could vote for. 

I still don't believe that the last election was a rerun of the referendum as there were significant other factors at play.

The number of traditionally left wing voters in the so called Red Wall seats who voted Tory because they wanted a pro BREXIT government above all else justifies the claim that the 2019 GE was indeed referendum MK2. The failure to deliver BREXIT will not be forgiven especially where the Rubber Boat criminals has not been addressed and stopped in its tracks.  Johnson's involvement in Ukraine was unwanted, unmandated, and simply wrong.  There's much more important matters to be addressed in the UK that are being ignored.

[P.K.]

19 minutes ago, Eris said:

The number of traditionally left wing voters in the so called Red Wall seats who voted Tory because they wanted a pro BREXIT government above all else justifies the claim that the 2019 GE was indeed referendum MK2. The failure to deliver BREXIT will not be forgiven especially where the Rubber Boat criminals has not been addressed and stopped in its tracks.  Johnson's involvement in Ukraine was unwanted, unmandated, and simply wrong.  There's much more important matters to be addressed in the UK that are being ignored.

What have the "Rubber Boat Criminals" got to do with Brexit?

After all, none of them are EU citizens...

[Eris]

23 minutes ago, P.K. said:

What have the "Rubber Boat Criminals" got to do with Brexit?

After all, none of them are EU citizens...

Because while the UK was a member of the EU an "asylum seeker" could apply for asylum at any point within the EU.  That combined with international maritime laws resulted in the god awful mess that saw our having to permit the illegal immigrants to land once within the UK territorial waters and consider their claim.  BREXIT should have permitted the UK to save life but immediately return these criminals back to France or whatever safe country they had departed from.   For some unfathomable reason the Tory government did not and so far have not returned the by definition criminals back from whence they came.  This is one of if not THE subject of most anger by English people.  There is absolutely no excuse for not dealing with this ongoing invasion.