Brexit Penny Dropping?

[code99]

I generally don’t comment on peoples’ appearances, but in case of JRM I am making an exception – that lying bespectacled dildo on Ch4 today exhorted Jeremy Hunt to ‘take advantage’ of Brexit opportunities that are apparently lurking everywhere. But sadly, IMHO they only exist in his (and Farage’s) imagination. Of course, these ‘opportunities’ are of little consolation to nurses who are currently struggling to survive on the pittance they get as pay. These are the same nurses for whom the British public clapped every Thursday two years ago to show our gratitude for saving lives whilst putting their own lives at risk. Incidentally, the Daily Mail has recently branded them as ‘militant nurses’ for their temerity to ask for the same pay increase as some very comfortably well-off pensioners will be receiving under the Triple Lock (those cruises in the Med won’t sail themselves!).

 I envisage that when the next pandemic comes along there will be too few nurses and a medical ‘Hunger Games’ dystopia may be what we all end up with.      

[code99]

4 minutes ago, prism10 said:

A bit late for buyers remorse.

It is never too late to reverse an obvious mistake, just like Liz Truss's mini-budget debacle.

 

[Apple]

1 hour ago, code99 said:

It is never too late to reverse an obvious mistake, just like Liz Truss's mini-budget debacle.

They would not have the UK back. Why should they ? 

[John Wright]

5 minutes ago, Apple said:

They would not have the UK back. Why should they ? 

They would. But there’d be none of the opt outs, social chapter, Euro, Schengen.

At the moment there’s no main stream party, with a chance of winning an election, willing to adopt Brentry as a policy, so it’s a non starter.

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, code99 said:

It is never too late to reverse an obvious mistake, just like Liz Truss's mini-budget debacle.

 

An obvious mistake?

Don’t think so.

Was it an obvious mistake for the UK electorate to choose a Tory government at the last election?

I would say so and would like that reversed but that can’t happen and I am glad it can’t, because that my friend, is democracy.

Edited November 17, 2022 by The Voice of Reason

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

An obvious mistake?
Don’t think so.

Was it an obvious mistake for the UK electorate to choose a Tory government at the last election?

I would say so and would like that reversed but that can’t happen and I am glad it can’t, because that my friend, is democracy.

Unfortunately the UK version of democracy, which doesn't have a written constitution, needs an inherent level of honesty from politicians to function.

Strange but true the government of the day has a duty of care to ALL of it's citizens.

That ended with Thatcher and things have got even worse since then.

The country needs a reset...

[code99]

12 hours ago, Apple said:

They would not have the UK back. Why should they ? 

Perhaps the second best way forward is for a Labour-Lib Dem Coalition Government (in 2025) to join the EU Single Market and / or the EU Customs Union.

[John Wright]

2 hours ago, code99 said:

Perhaps the second best way forward is for a Labour-Lib Dem Coalition Government (in 2025) to join the EU Single Market and / or the EU Customs Union.

Except that would have to be a manifesto commitment by both. It won’t be in Labours manifesto. So it’s a non starter. I suppose they might offer a referendum on the 10th anniversary of the last one and then it’d take 5 years of negotiation. Re-entry 01/01/2033 After a referendum on the terms.

can you imagine how damaging those referenda would be.

[John Wright]

Sunday Times is leading with Rishi allegedly planning to move the UK to a Swiss style multiple bilateral agreement relationship with the EU, but without free movement of labour. Times quotes unatributed government sources. 

All well and good, but, a. The ERG rent a mob/gob knives are already out, Mark Francois blustering and ranting . It may be Rishi’s downfall, and, b. EU won’t accept that as a deal. Free movement of people, goods, services and capital are integral to their thinking.U

[John Wright]

On 11/13/2022 at 3:19 PM, Max Power said:

I think the referendum was triggered by Cameron's pique at being shunned when he suggested reform. That was something which wound up the electorate in Britain and led to the leave vote.

Except he got virtually everything he asked for, that were within the power of the EU. And the things he didn’t get were things the UK already had the power as a sovereign  state to legislate as they weren’t EU.

[code99]

3 hours ago, John Wright said:

Sunday Times is leading with Rishi allegedly planning to move the UK to a Swiss style multiple bilateral agreement relationship with the EU, but without free movement of labour. Times quotes unatributed government sources. 

All well and good, but, a. The ERG rent a mob/gob knives are already out, Mark Francois blustering and ranting . It may be Rishi’s downfall, and, b. EU won’t accept that as a deal. Free movement of people, goods, services and capital are integral to their thinking.U

Last year the EU “offered a Swiss-style trading arrangement, which could get rid of 80% of the checks between Great Britain and Northern Ireland...but it was rejected by Lord Frost”.

Most sensible people should take umbrage to UK being held hostage by a bunch of right-wing extremist scoundrels (and some duped Northern scallies). This clique is unflinchingly pursuing Brexit’s flawed policies in order to enrich a very small cadre of their very wealthy powerful backers but are detrimental to the welfare of the majority of British people. Which is perhaps why the latest opinion (Sky and YouGov) polls indicate that if Brexit referendum was held today the Remainers would have won - "you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time".       

Edited November 20, 2022 by code99

[Max Power]

4 hours ago, John Wright said:

Except he got virtually everything he asked for, that were within the power of the EU. And the things he didn’t get were things the UK already had the power as a sovereign  state to legislate as they weren’t EU.

I'm sure, but the press at the time repeated this as a slight against Britain and its sovereignty, an insult to its leader, which he failed to play down or trumpet as a victory. 

[John Wright]

14 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I'm sure, but the press at the time repeated this as a slight against Britain and its sovereignty, an insult to its leader, which he failed to play down or trumpet as a victory. 

First, of all the red tops, plus The Times and Telegraph have been anti EU for 40 years. You can’t expect fair or balanced reporting or opinion pieces from papers owned by Murdoch, the Barclays, Rothermere.

Second, “call me Dave” was fighting to save his political career, and the Tory party ( not the country ) from the successors of John Major’s “bastards”, the ERG and Farage, and the various nebulous right wing lobby groups in Tufton Street. 

Third, you’re correct, Cameron and Remain played a good hand very very badly.

Fourth, the liars and chancers, plus their tax exile media chums, the Farages, Francois, Rees-Moggs and Johnson, supported by the no marks like Pritti & Suella played a blinder. They duped people, played the xenophobic card ( remember the immigration poster full of brown or black skinned people ) conflating EU freedom of movement with immigration from elsewhere ( which we were always able to control - but didn’t ) and the £350m a week for the NHS side of the bus. Great sound bites/memes.

And, yes, project fear back fired, as a campaign tactic. Even although almost everything predicted is now coming to pass.

And after May messed up, served Art 50 notice without sorting out what the UK wanted out of its future relationship and without establishing the rules and order of negotiation. Then she called an election and put herself totally at the mercy of the ERG.

At that stage Remain, abetted by Speaker Bercow and some very inventive, nifty and nimble, parliamentary procedure played a blinder. But ERG managed to portray them as the establishment and thwarting the will of the people.

Along came the UK’s peoples prince ( and I do agree with the childish playground adjectives usually trotted out by @P.K. ) and called an election and won a landslide, but not on any real policies, just promises of “an oven ready deal” ( when he didn’t have the oven, Turkey, stuffing, tin foil ), and the promise that all the delay and shenanigans would be over ( of course it wasn’t/isn’t - we got a canary, singed on the barbecue, and no trimmings ). It is now clear how bad the oven ready hard Brexit deal was for UK. It all starts again.

 

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Re the £350 million for the NHS side of a bus claim. Yes it was using figures to advance the Brexit argument.
Such claims happen all the time. All political parties include items in their manifestos, including statistics,  presented in such a way to persuade people of their argument .  It’s the rough and tumble of politics. 

The £350 million figure was challenged at the time and arguments advanced as to why it was not true. The electorate were thus able to decide whether it had any merit. So to suggest this was a defining factor in the Brexit vote is somewhat disingenuous. 
 

What is not acceptable is the old canard that those in favour of Brexit are xenophobic.  As one who was in favour of the UK leaving the EU I find that quite offensive and gutter politics.

[quilp]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

What is not acceptable is the old canard that those in favour of Brexit are xenophobic. As one who was in favour of the UK leaving the EU, I find it quite offensive and gutter politics.

It was/is an easy label to throw about, along with all the other gratuitous shouted and pointed insults and aspersions too numerous to mention by now. Remainers attach little consideration or significance to the deliberate and calculated, protracted obstructionism and vengefulness exercised by Garçon Macron, Frau Merkel and the other hand-wringing globalists like Verhofstad, et al, every step of the way, intent on making Britain's exit as difficult as possible.

I still contend,and hope, that the bloc as we know it now, will not exist in its present form a decade or so from now (actually less since it's almost seven years since I first postulated the possibility). It cannot continue with its contemptuous behaviour in bullying the newer, 'poorer' members with its threats of withdrawing funding and other punitive actions to get other nations to toe their line. The Ukraine/Russia conflict may even hasten this process. 'Better together' was a slogan, but how much better and more together is the Union since Brexit?